Post subject: Re: The downfall of ESPN continues...
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:57 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:14 am Posts: 8662 Location: IL
Chris_H_2 wrote:
pearljamminagain wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
pearljamminagain wrote:
And yes, Chris, I love the fact that ESPN realizes the country prefers watching the best conference in basketball play, not the Lil Eleven and the like.
Just curious, but do you think that NBC concluded that the country prefers watching Notre Dame football when it threw all that money at Notre Dame, or do you think it was a matter of advertising dollars to target a certain demographic?
ND for the demographic.
ACC for the best basketball in the country.
You can say it till you're blue in the face, but there is no doubt that year-in, year-out the ACC is the best conference in the country in college basketball, just as the SEC is the best in football. And I know you are smart enough to realize this. I also realize that the Big Ten is a hell of a conference and puts forth some great basketball and football teams, but they don't own the roost in either. Some years? Of course. Most years? ACC hoops. SEC football. Hell, the Big Ten is probably a better basketball conference than the SEC and a better football conference than the ACC, but the best of either they are not.
I don't care if the ACC rivals the NBA, ESPN does not exclusively carry ACC games because "its the best basketball in the country." The ratings don't reflect this, and you're naive to think otherwise. The average college-basketball fan who watches these games would watch regardless if ESPN showed the SEC, Pac-10, Big East, Big 12, or Big Ten. And the marginal fans that tune it because it's the ACC make it a negligible difference (outside of the N. Carolina/Duke games). So you can spare yourself the need to use ESPN to argue that the ACC is the best conference in basketball, because A does not equal B.
I'm definitely not using ESPN's desire to show ACC basketball as any argument that it's the best conference in the country. I'll let history do that.
I was kind of just messin with ya. Because, honestly, I don't think that ESPN shows that much more ACC basketball than other conferences. Lots of Big East games. Plenty of Big 12. And too much Big Ten. It's just that the ACC has two of the top programs in its conference every year (for the most part) with Carolina and Dook. So, you see more ACC games because people nationally will watch Carolina and Dook. .01% of the population in North Carolina give two shits about Illinois basketball. But, here, it's probably more like 10% caring about Carolina or Dook, and when you are playing the rating games, I would think that's a huge difference. Even a top program like Ohio State probably only has a handful of people in the Carolinas giving a shit about them. It's about fans, not who's best. But really, in the end it seems the better teams have more fans.
Post subject: Re: The downfall of ESPN continues...
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:01 pm
Supersonic
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 10620 Location: Chicago, IL Gender: Male
pearljamminagain wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
pearljamminagain wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
pearljamminagain wrote:
And yes, Chris, I love the fact that ESPN realizes the country prefers watching the best conference in basketball play, not the Lil Eleven and the like.
Just curious, but do you think that NBC concluded that the country prefers watching Notre Dame football when it threw all that money at Notre Dame, or do you think it was a matter of advertising dollars to target a certain demographic?
ND for the demographic.
ACC for the best basketball in the country.
You can say it till you're blue in the face, but there is no doubt that year-in, year-out the ACC is the best conference in the country in college basketball, just as the SEC is the best in football. And I know you are smart enough to realize this. I also realize that the Big Ten is a hell of a conference and puts forth some great basketball and football teams, but they don't own the roost in either. Some years? Of course. Most years? ACC hoops. SEC football. Hell, the Big Ten is probably a better basketball conference than the SEC and a better football conference than the ACC, but the best of either they are not.
I don't care if the ACC rivals the NBA, ESPN does not exclusively carry ACC games because "its the best basketball in the country." The ratings don't reflect this, and you're naive to think otherwise. The average college-basketball fan who watches these games would watch regardless if ESPN showed the SEC, Pac-10, Big East, Big 12, or Big Ten. And the marginal fans that tune it because it's the ACC make it a negligible difference (outside of the N. Carolina/Duke games). So you can spare yourself the need to use ESPN to argue that the ACC is the best conference in basketball, because A does not equal B.
I'm definitely not using ESPN's desire to show ACC basketball as any argument that it's the best conference in the country. I'll let history do that.
I was kind of just messin with ya. Because, honestly, I don't think that ESPN shows that much more ACC basketball than other conferences. Lots of Big East games. Plenty of Big 12. And too much Big Ten. It's just that the ACC has two of the top programs in its conference every year (for the most part) with Carolina and Dook. So, you see more ACC games because people nationally will watch Carolina and Dook. .01% of the population in North Carolina give two shits about Illinois basketball. But, here, it's probably more like 10% caring about Carolina or Dook, and when you are playing the rating games, I would think that's a huge difference. Even a top program like Ohio State probably only has a handful of people in the Carolinas giving a shit about them. It's about fans, not who's best. But really, in the end it seems the better teams have more fans.
What it comes down to is that I really just hate the following (each of which I equate with the other):
Post subject: Re: The downfall of ESPN continues...
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:31 pm
Supersonic
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 10620 Location: Chicago, IL Gender: Male
Athletic Supporter wrote:
Great call on Les Miles ESPN. He never even talked to Michigan you asshats.
I still don't think that we know the entire story. It's hard to believe that neither he nor his people ever had a conversation with Michigan officials off the record. Sources say that everything was in place to name him Sunday.
Post subject: Re: The downfall of ESPN continues...
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:52 pm
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 2:08 am Posts: 5495
ESPN has been jumping the gun on "newstories" for years and have consistently had the story wrong. this is why I go nowhere near espn.com...it's always incorrect.
_________________ IX - X - XIII - XIV - XL - XLIII ONE FOR EACH FINGER, THE THUMB AND START THE OTHER HAND!!
Post subject: Re: The downfall of ESPN continues...
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:01 pm
Interweb Celebrity
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
i haven't gone to espn.com in awhile. i get my sports news from cnnsi.com for the most part.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Post subject: Re: The downfall of ESPN continues...
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:13 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:08 pm Posts: 8255
corduroy_blazer wrote:
i haven't gone to espn.com in awhile. i get my sports news from cnnsi.com for the most part.
there's still lots of good stuff over at espn.com. I still read guys like Law, Neyer, Hollinger, and Lenny P.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
Post subject: Re: The downfall of ESPN continues...
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:14 pm
Interweb Celebrity
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
i haven't gone to espn.com in awhile. i get my sports news from cnnsi.com for the most part.
there's still lots of good stuff over at espn.com. I still read guys like Law, Neyer, Hollinger, and Lenny P.
neyer and lenny are great. i'm unfamiliar off the top of my head with law and hollinger.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
is stuart scott dead? why has pal salantonio been on monday night countdown the last couple weeks? that guy is just dreadful.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Post subject: Re: The downfall of ESPN continues...
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:45 pm
Supersonic
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 10620 Location: Chicago, IL Gender: Male
Athletic Supporter wrote:
Great call on Les Miles ESPN. He never even talked to Michigan you asshats.
Here you go:
Quote:
Carty: When Les Miles' agent reached out to Bill Martin Friday, he got silence in return by Jim Carty | The Ann Arbor News Tuesday December 04, 2007, 10:55 PM
On Friday night, Les Miles had a problem.
While most of the media speculated the Louisiana State football coach was about to jump to the University of Michigan to succeed Lloyd Carr, neither Miles nor his agent, George Bass, had heard from anyone connected to Michigan in any capacity.
Bill Martin, Michigan's athletic director, had received permission Wednesday to talk to Miles after Saturday's Southeastern Conference title game, but had not called to set up a meeting or schedule a phone call.
LSU, meanwhile, was pushing hard behind the scenes to keep Miles, offering a multi-year contract extension that would boost his pay by millions.
Forget all you've heard about secret deals using third-party intermediaries between Michigan and Miles. Bass said it's just not true.
Miles had no idea if Michigan really wanted him.
So Bass decided to ask.
He said he called Martin's cell phone on Friday and left a message. He just wanted to know where Miles stood.
Then, when he didn't hear back, the agent said he called Martin again.
"The (LSU) deal was so good that we couldn't just wait," Bass said via phone Tuesday. "I didn't know if we were one of the candidates in the pool at that time. There was just no communication."
Where was Martin? One source places him in Florida, at the Ocean Reef Club in Key Largo. Wherever he was, he didn't call back.
We all know what happened next.
ESPN began reporting Saturday morning that Miles had reached a deal with Michigan. Miles' LSU players began to plaintively ask him at pre-game chapel at the team hotel if he was leaving them for the Wolverines.
Miles, irate at the erroneous report, told LSU officials he was staying, then called an angry pre-game news conference to rip ESPN and say he'd never talked to anyone about leaving. Soon afterward, LSU issued a press release saying he'd agreed in principal to a new contract.
That was it, game over.
Miles wasn't coming to Michigan.
And while some in the media tried to portray the former Michigan offensive guard as a cynical all-about-the-money guy who'd just used his alma mater and the memory of Bo Schembechler to leverage maximum bank out of LSU, the truth was, he'd essentially done what Michigan wouldn't do.
He called home. Twice.
"He will always love Michigan," Bass said. "It's a place that's very special in his heart. This has been very tough on him."
Why didn't Martin call back? Why hadn't he called Bass already, to set something up, particularly after LSU's athletic director said in a printed report that he had no problem with Martin calling the agent?
Was he at the beach? Out sailing?
Martin did not return a message left on his cell phone Tuesday, and Michigan spokesperson Bruce Madej said the athletic director was attending a football awards dinner in New York. Martin did e-mail that he was "on a fund raising trip for football stadium. Also working on coach search."
There are really only a few explanations for what happened with Miles, though, none of them very good.
Maybe Martin is so old school he refused to deal with an agent.
Maybe Martin believed Michigan is such a special job that Miles would wait as long as was necessary to talk to him.
Or maybe, it was all a show. Perhaps Martin never really wanted to hire Miles, and asked permission to speak to the LSU coach simply to appease the former Michigan players and the legions of fans who were clamoring for the big-name candidate who bled maize and blue. Perhaps he was also scared off by reports that LSU would pay more than $3 million annually to keep Miles (Michigan, by comparison, paid Carr about half that).
It's hard to say which of those truths would be worse.
The first two mean Martin is in over his head and bumbled away his shot at Miles.
And if it was a show, why?
Why not have the courage of your convictions and publicly rule Miles out? Was it in hope that Miles - encountering silence from Michigan - would take Martin off the hook and rule himself out by taking the LSU deal?
What's clear is that Michigan's athletic director, intentionally or unintentionally, appears to have waited away any chance he had of hiring Les Miles.
And that Miles, in the aftermath, has been unfairly portrayed as being all about the big contract and nothing more.
Well, yeah, LSU showed him the money.
But before Miles agreed to take it, he asked Michigan to show him the love, to show him something - anything really - that indicated he would be the next Wolverines' coach.
He got silence in return.
Maybe by design.
Staying at LSU suddenly makes all the sense in the world.
You sure can't say the same about Michigan's search for a new football coach right now.
I'm so sick and tired of Michigan thinking that coaches should come to them. Great, have fun with Mike DeBoard or Ron English Michigan -- after all, it's what you deserve.
Post subject: Re: The downfall of ESPN continues...
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:20 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:08 pm Posts: 8255
jimmac24 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
i haven't gone to espn.com in awhile. i get my sports news from cnnsi.com for the most part.
I just hate how big and colorful cnnsi.com is. It's like the sesame street of sports websites.
perhaps, but at least when they present "breaking news"...it's almost always true.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
Post subject: Re: The downfall of ESPN continues...
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:18 pm
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 2:08 am Posts: 5495
BDB wrote:
Lute Olsen's divorce filing is front page news on espn.com. what the fuck.
and what's with the annoying streaming video...i just went on that site for the first time in...i don't know...18-20 months...that is just plain annoying.
_________________ IX - X - XIII - XIV - XL - XLIII ONE FOR EACH FINGER, THE THUMB AND START THE OTHER HAND!!
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