Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 10620 Location: Chicago, IL Gender: Male
Furious2004 wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
Furious2004 wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
Furious2004 wrote:
I am not talking about the innocent fans just the guilty ones.
I think Artest is getting too much of the brunt of this. He is just acting like most people would (at least most people I know). Sure he acted a little crazy and wasn't too smart about the situation but it is sure easy to say that while sitting on a couch watching it on TV.
How many professional basketball players do you know?
Never counted but best guess is 17
want to know how many NFL players I know as well? what does that have to do with anything?
Because you said that Ron Artest was acting like most people you know. Unless you're serious about how many people you know that would act like that being basketball players, I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion. The point a lot of people in this thread have already made is that you cannot compare what professional athletes go through and how they react to the rest of us. They are players, on a court with a job to play basketball. If someone throws something at them, building security are supposed to take care of it.
What's funny is that I go to a million Cubs' games and see people in the left and right field bleachers douse outfielders from the opposing teams with beer when they are going to make catches on the warning track. Never once have I seen a player try to climb into the bleachers to beat the living crap out of the fans.
I was talking about people in general not just the players I know... by the way I was wrong it is not 17 it is 15 that I know personally.
Baseball players don't do it cause there is a wall seperating them from the fans.
You say they should act professional well then so should the fans. Who says the fans have the right to do what they want but the players should sit back and take it. Professianal is a bunch of crap. Ron artest is a human and he is reacting to the situation. It is instict to react like that. you can all argue otherwise but that is the truth.
If someone were to come into my office and pour beer all over me I am going after him. Being at work is gonna have no bearing on how I react.
Hmm, my guess is that you don't have people in designated areas around your desk watching you work and cheering you on or rooting against you. And I'm also guessing that you don't have security guards at the four corners of your office that, if someone did come in a pour beer on you, that you could have them escort them from your office.
I completely agree with you on all the other points you made, though.
By the way, if one of the players you know is Eddie Curry from the Bulls, tell him to please demand a trade to another team. Thanks.
as i have said, chico and juan on the floor (fair game)
Why, exactly, were those men on the court "fair game"? Please present your case counselor.
why were they on the court at all?
lets see, they were coming from the left side of the pacers bench, when everything took place to the right or in front of the pacers bench. last time i watched a detroit pistons game, i didnt notice any doors in the floor that were an exit.
if they were trying to leave, why in the hell not go up the stairs that are in the seats? im pretty sure they didnt make their entrance from the center of the floor. they had absolutely no business being there.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:53 am Posts: 4470 Location: Knoxville, TN Gender: Male
Furious2004 wrote:
Cartman wrote:
Furious2004 wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
Furious2004 wrote:
I am not talking about the innocent fans just the guilty ones.
I think Artest is getting too much of the brunt of this. He is just acting like most people would (at least most people I know). Sure he acted a little crazy and wasn't too smart about the situation but it is sure easy to say that while sitting on a couch watching it on TV.
How many professional basketball players do you know?
Never counted but best guess is 17
want to know how many NFL players I know as well? what does that have to do with anything?
Can I touch you? You sound important.
I am important but you can't afford what it would cost
Wow. Big words. You must be better than everyone. I wish I was superior to everyone I came into contact with. Instead I just view myself as human and equal.
I am not talking about the innocent fans just the guilty ones.
I think Artest is getting too much of the brunt of this. He is just acting like most people would (at least most people I know). Sure he acted a little crazy and wasn't too smart about the situation but it is sure easy to say that while sitting on a couch watching it on TV.
How many professional basketball players do you know?
Never counted but best guess is 17
want to know how many NFL players I know as well? what does that have to do with anything?
Can I touch you? You sound important.
I am important but you can't afford what it would cost
Wow. Big words. You must be better than everyone. I wish I was superior to everyone I came into contact with. Instead I just view myself as human and equal.
if you are being serious and taking offense to what he said about being important that's just sad
as i have said, chico and juan on the floor (fair game) quote]
Why, exactly, were those men on the court "fair game"? Please present your case counselor.
the fans on the court are fair game because they have no business being there, how is artest wrong for going where the fans are, but fans arent wrong for going where players are? they are both wrong, these guys didnt even come from the same section as the fighting, if they were trying to leave they shouldve used the exits like normal people. and the excuse they werent trying to do anything doest hold water, they walked right up to him, if they wanted an autograph, then they had bad timing and should get beat for being stupid. thats like saying if i go to the zoo and jump in the cage with hungry tigers, i should be surprised that they bite me. monica seles was stabbed by a fan on the court, the royals coach in chicago was attacked, randy myers was attacked at wrigley field several years ago, other than fans celebrating and tearing down goal posts, there arent many instances of fans running on the field of play with good intentions, and players should be allowed to defend themselves in that situation, just like the fans should be allowed to defend themselves with players going into the stands.
Last edited by dannyg on Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
(Intriguing note on Wallace: One of his posse members was the huge guy who attacked Fred Jones from behind. During the initial altercation, you can see the guy lurking behind Artest as Artest lies on the scorer's table, almost like he's ready to jump him. You can also see him consoling Wallace's kids after the fact.)
- Bill Simmons
This i didnt know, i thought they would have mentioned that those were wallaces kids crying, obviously they annoucners wouldnt have known that dude was in wallaces posse
and another simmons qoute
"O'Neal (25 games) -- This was the one that bothered me. On one of the Detroit TV websites, they have a clip of Artest fighting those two guys in front of the Pistons bench -- the situation was a little more dire than it seemed on the ESPN replays. When O'Neal landed his Kermit Washington punch, from the Detroit TV replay, it looked like that guy was getting up to charge Artest again before O'Neal belted him. More importantly, what were they doing on the floor? Doesn't that make them fair game?"
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 6822 Location: NY Gender: Male
jasonw wrote:
(Intriguing note on Wallace: One of his posse members was the huge guy who attacked Fred Jones from behind. During the initial altercation, you can see the guy lurking behind Artest as Artest lies on the scorer's table, almost like he's ready to jump him. You can also see him consoling Wallace's kids after the fact.)
- Bill Simmons
This i didnt know, i thought they would have mentioned that those were wallaces kids crying, obviously they annoucners wouldnt have known that dude was in wallaces posse
and another simmons qoute
"O'Neal (25 games) -- This was the one that bothered me. On one of the Detroit TV websites, they have a clip of Artest fighting those two guys in front of the Pistons bench -- the situation was a little more dire than it seemed on the ESPN replays. When O'Neal landed his Kermit Washington punch, from the Detroit TV replay, it looked like that guy was getting up to charge Artest again before O'Neal belted him. More importantly, what were they doing on the floor? Doesn't that make them fair game?"
You must realize Bill Simmons is strongly anti-Pistons. He's a Boston fan, so it makes since. If you've read all of his previous columns, he's not a fan of Detroit. Much like I hate Jordan and still despise the Bulls even though they suck. Now, I'm not sticking up for the Detroit fans that made asses of themselves, but take Simmons with a grain of salt.
Some of my favorite quotes from the article:
The Sports Guy wrote:
Note: Legler is my favorite ESPN guy for hoops. But I hope he doesn't actually believe that, in the same situation, any player in the league would have done what Artest did that night? You're telling me Grant Hill would have done that?
The Sports Guy wrote:
Which reminds me, two people are going to become very rich from this thing: The first guy Artest attacked and the first guy Stephen Jackson punched. They didn't do anything wrong. They didn't provoke anybody. They were basically attacked for no good reason. Somebody get Jim Sokolove on the phone!
Which reminds me, two people are going to become very rich from this thing: The first guy Artest attacked and the first guy Stephen Jackson punched. They didn't do anything wrong. They didn't provoke anybody. They were basically attacked for no good reason. Somebody get Jim Sokolove on the phone!
actually it looked like to me the guy that jackson hit was the guy who launched a full cup of whatever at artest as artest was being restrained. that guy deserved it
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 6822 Location: NY Gender: Male
Peeps wrote:
Go_State wrote:
The Sports Guy wrote:
Which reminds me, two people are going to become very rich from this thing: The first guy Artest attacked and the first guy Stephen Jackson punched. They didn't do anything wrong. They didn't provoke anybody. They were basically attacked for no good reason. Somebody get Jim Sokolove on the phone!
actually it looked like to me the guy that jackson hit was the guy who launched a full cup of whatever at artest as artest was being restrained. that guy deserved it
I'm sorry, but once Artest went into the stands he became a target. If anyone felt the need to toss a cup of liquid at him, I have no problem with it. He's lucky he didn't get his jaw broken.
I'm sorry, but once Artest went into the stands he became a target. If anyone felt the need to toss a cup of liquid at him, I have no problem with it. He's lucky he didn't get his jaw broken.
and once a fan entered the floor area, he became a target....
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 6822 Location: NY Gender: Male
Peeps wrote:
Go_State wrote:
I'm sorry, but once Artest went into the stands he became a target. If anyone felt the need to toss a cup of liquid at him, I have no problem with it. He's lucky he didn't get his jaw broken.
and once a fan entered the floor area, he became a target....
I agree. Any fan that entered the floor and got anywhere near one of the players was just asking for it. I feel that way about all sports. Once you enter the field of play, you're fair game.
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:09 pm Posts: 238 Location: RSN
Allright, enough with this. It doesnt matter if you think the fans deserve what they got or not. The bottom line is, these athletes are supposed to be professionals, they are not drunks in a bar or any of that other bull shit. When the fans started throwing shit, all they had to do was walk away to the locker room, but that wouldn't help promote Artest's rap album would it.
Allright, enough with this. It doesnt matter if you think the fans deserve what they got or not. The bottom line is, these athletes are supposed to be professionals, they are not drunks in a bar or any of that other bull shit. When the fans started throwing shit, all they had to do was walk away to the locker room, but that wouldn't help promote Artest's rap album would it.
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:09 pm Posts: 238 Location: RSN
Peeps wrote:
walshmg wrote:
Allright, enough with this. It doesnt matter if you think the fans deserve what they got or not. The bottom line is, these athletes are supposed to be professionals, they are not drunks in a bar or any of that other bull shit. When the fans started throwing shit, all they had to do was walk away to the locker room, but that wouldn't help promote Artest's rap album would it.
yea, because it was safe for them to do so
It was safe for them to do so, until Artest went crazy. If he didnt loose his head it never would have got as ugly as it did.
During an appearance Tuesday on ABC's "Good Morning America," Green described himself as a respected businessman with a wife and two children. He said he was not drinking Friday night.
"I don't go around breaking the law," he said "If they have found that I broke the law, I'll pay the price."
However, Gorcyca said Green was on probation for his third offense of driving under the influence. Green's record also includes convictions for carrying a concealed weapon and check fraud, according to the Michigan Department of Corrections' database.
yea, this is a fan who wasnt looking to start trouble
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
Peeps wrote:
why were they on the court at all?
One reason would be that the violence that spread into the stands gave them cause to find the quickest exit from the situation.
Peeps wrote:
lets see, they were coming from the left side of the pacers bench, when everything took place to the right or in front of the pacers bench. last time i watched a detroit pistons game, i didnt notice any doors in the floor that were an exit.
if they were trying to leave, why in the hell not go up the stairs that are in the seats? im pretty sure they didnt make their entrance from the center of the floor. they had absolutely no business being there.
rebutal mr hopelessly outmatched public defender
Why is it that setting foot on a basketball court makes it ok for people to assault you? Exactly?
If a man runs out onto a baseball field, he is chased down by police and arrested. Not automatically beaten by the right fielder.
There is no legal defense for punching someone in the face, particularly when NOT acting in obvious self-defense. No one that Artest attacked did anything to him. If Artest is so concerned with self-defense, he should have gone after Ben Wallace. Oh I forgot, Ben Wallace would have beat the shit out of Artest and skinny white boy in the crowd was helpless.
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