Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
It was very, very close, but between the wrong two players. Lee should have finished second, not Jones.
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:02 pm Posts: 1777 Location: Naperville, IL, USA Ten Club: 230xxx Gender: Male
Pujols, Lee, and Jones would be admirable MVP's any year. Compared to each other in 2005 Pujols is the clear winner, with Lee and Jones a very close second, and between Lee and Jones I give Lee a microscopic nod, if only for Jones' putrid overall BA (for an MVP candidate) and terrible RISP BA (for anybody).
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
twoheadedboy wrote:
Pujols, Lee, and Jones would be admirable MVP's any year. Compared to each other in 2005 Pujols is the clear winner, with Lee and Jones a very close second, and between Lee and Jones I give Lee a microscopic nod, if only for Jones' putrid overall BA (for an MVP candidate) and terrible RISP BA (for anybody).
how is pujols the clear winner? if anything, lee has a slight nod in batting stats, and he's a better fielder.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:44 am Posts: 14671 Location: Baton Rouge Gender: Male
corduroy_blazer wrote:
twoheadedboy wrote:
Pujols, Lee, and Jones would be admirable MVP's any year. Compared to each other in 2005 Pujols is the clear winner, with Lee and Jones a very close second, and between Lee and Jones I give Lee a microscopic nod, if only for Jones' putrid overall BA (for an MVP candidate) and terrible RISP BA (for anybody).
how is pujols the clear winner? if anything, lee has a slight nod in batting stats, and he's a better fielder.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
Mitchell wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
twoheadedboy wrote:
Pujols, Lee, and Jones would be admirable MVP's any year. Compared to each other in 2005 Pujols is the clear winner, with Lee and Jones a very close second, and between Lee and Jones I give Lee a microscopic nod, if only for Jones' putrid overall BA (for an MVP candidate) and terrible RISP BA (for anybody).
how is pujols the clear winner? if anything, lee has a slight nod in batting stats, and he's a better fielder.
i'd also like to know this.
Because the Cardinals were racked with injuries all season and his consistency may have helped them win the division, whereas the Cubs sucked even with Lee having a monster season. That's the argument anyway.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:44 am Posts: 14671 Location: Baton Rouge Gender: Male
Athletic Supporter wrote:
Mitchell wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
twoheadedboy wrote:
Pujols, Lee, and Jones would be admirable MVP's any year. Compared to each other in 2005 Pujols is the clear winner, with Lee and Jones a very close second, and between Lee and Jones I give Lee a microscopic nod, if only for Jones' putrid overall BA (for an MVP candidate) and terrible RISP BA (for anybody).
how is pujols the clear winner? if anything, lee has a slight nod in batting stats, and he's a better fielder.
i'd also like to know this.
Because the Cardinals were racked with injuries all season and his consistency may have helped them win the division, whereas the Cubs sucked even with Lee having a monster season. That's the argument anyway.
yea, i know that's the argument; it just doesn't make any sense to me. lee was the better player, i can't fault him for being on a bad team.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
Mitchell wrote:
yea, i know that's the argument; it just doesn't make any sense to me. lee was the better player, i can't fault him for being on a bad team.
He wasn't really that much better. If you go down the line and compare them line by line, it's pretty goddamn close.
Games:
Lee 158
Pujols 161
AB:
Lee 594
Pujols 591
Runs:
Lee 120
Pujols 129
Hits:
Lee 199
Pujols 195
Doubles:
Lee 50
Pujols 38
Triples:
Lee 3
Pujols 2
HR:
Lee 46
Pujols 41
RBI:
Lee 107
Pujols 117
Walks
Lee 88
Pujols 97
Strikeouts
Lee 109
Pujols 65
SB
Lee 15
Pujols 16
OPS:
Lee 1.080
Pujols 1.039
The only significant differences are doubles and strikeouts. We're not talking a lot of difference in overall performance.
Yes Lee is better defensively, but not so much better that it's CLEAR that he had the better season. Pujols is no slouch at 1b.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
i'm in no way saying lee is a clear choice, but before it was said pujols was the clear choice, and that's not correct, imo.
if anything, this was a much tighter race than in the AL. very tough to pick. i was just shocked that jones got so much talk, and lee was forgotten.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
It'd be scary to know what Lee's numbers would be if he was on a team that didn't have Neifi or Patterson in front of him, neither of whom reached .300 OBP.
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm Posts: 9282 Location: Atlanta Gender: Male
why the hate for Jones?
The best fielder by leaps and bounds over the 3. One of the best center field gloves of all time and he carried the team for the majority of the season, he's just not a particularly good average hitter.
It should also be known that no hometown votes were counted, AJC press if for bidden to vote in those things even though they have credentials, so it was the rest of the country that voted Jones 2nd.
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:04 pm Posts: 1954 Location: birmingham, al Gender: Male
Electromatic wrote:
why the hate for Jones?
The best fielder by leaps and bounds over the 3. One of the best center field gloves of all time and he carried the team for the majority of the season, he's just not a particularly good average hitter.
It should also be known that no hometown votes were counted, AJC press if for bidden to vote in those things even though they have credentials, so it was the rest of the country that voted Jones 2nd.
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:49 am Posts: 6766 Location: Big Kahuna Burger
I think it must come down to reputation to an extent also. All season there was more hype about Pujols and Jones, they're bigger headline grabbers than Lee, and I think this has a lot to do with it. When not sure of who to vote for many voters probably went for the bigger name. It's probably for this reason that Bonds has beat out Pujols in the past.
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:49 am Posts: 6766 Location: Big Kahuna Burger
twoheadedboy wrote:
Are you kidding me?
No. I think Pujols and Jones have been big names in the game for a few years, with reputations to match. I wouldn't put Lee in that same category
_________________ The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness for he is truly his brothers keeper
The best fielder by leaps and bounds over the 3. One of the best center field gloves of all time and he carried the team for the majority of the season, he's just not a particularly good average hitter.
It should also be known that no hometown votes were counted, AJC press if for bidden to vote in those things even though they have credentials, so it was the rest of the country that voted Jones 2nd.
i agree...jones carried that team.
a very specious argument.
if you compare their individual performances, it's clear Jones carried his team less than Lee carried his own, but because Jones's team was better than Lee's team, it gives the illusion that Jones "carried" the team because he was the most notable performer on a pretty good team that happened to have some big injuries. Put another way, if Lee (or Pujols) had been on the Braves and Jones had been on the Cubs, it's clear that the Braves would have been better and the Cubs (or Cards) would have been worse.
Of course, this is all speaking to how the MVP should be determined, not to how it is determined, where the voters take into account asinine variables such as RBI and "clutch".
To me, Lee was the best player this year by a nose over Pujols, with Jones a distant, distant third.
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