Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 6822 Location: NY Gender: Male
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
Express your disagreements.
(This stems from a discussion started in the "heartbreaking moments" thread. Please split those posts into this one, mods.)
I have this three-set of DVDs on Michael Jordan that includes a couple of his greatest games and all of his specials, and he says on several occasions that Joe Dumars was the bane of his offensive game. They actually have a short montage for the guy.
People have guarded Jordan better than Joe D, but never as consistently. Nobody was going to stop Jordan when he got rolling, but Dumars probably had the most success of anybody over a span of time.
JOE DUMARS
No one was capable of stopping Jordan one-on-one, but Dumars had more success than most because he focused on playing fundamental defense and wasn't intimidated. Jordan always mentioned Dumars when asked to name his toughest defenders, but the competition also brought out the best in Jordan at times. He scored 61 points in an overtime win against the Detroit Pistons in 1987 and added a 59-point effort in 1988.
MITCH RICHMOND
Granted, Richmond isn't noted for his defense, but that was part of his secret. Richmond, a high-scoring guard in his own right, made Jordan work hard and expend a great deal of energy on defense. That often left Jordan with less in the tank on offense.
ALVIN ROBERTSON
A teammate of Jordan's on the 1984 Olympic team, Robertson was one of the best guard defenders of his generation. Super quick with incredible balance and fast hands, Robertson had the ability to steal the ball from anyone -- including Jordan.
CLYDE DREXLER
If the Portland Trail Blazers hadn't drafted Drexler the year before, there is no way Jordan would have slipped down to the Bulls at No. 3. Drexler's size (6-7) was a big asset in keeping Jordan out of the post.
ROLANDO BLACKMAN
The longtime Dallas Mavericks guard wasn't fully appreciated as a defender, but was a tough matchup for anyone in the late 1980s.
THE BOTTOM FIVE
CRAIG EHLO
Will go down in history as the sap who was trying to get a hand in Jordan's face as he made "The Shot," which eliminated the Cleveland Cavaliers from the 1989 playoffs, and also as the defender torched for Jordan's career-high 69 points in 1990. Ehlo was burnt more often than toast at the neighborhood diner because Lenny Wilkens, then the Cavaliers' coach, refused to double-team Jordan.
DELL CURRY
The best thing that can be said of Curry's defensive abilities is that he Ãs a heck of an outside shooter. Didn't possess the quickness or the jumping ability to bother Jordan especially when he returned to North Carolina to play before the folks in his home state.
DAN MAJERLE
The Phoenix Suns might have had a shot at winning the 1993 NBA Finals if Majerle could have managed to do a better job. Jordan pumped in 56 points in Game 4 to help the Bulls take a 3-1 lead.
DEREK HARPER
During Jordan's 55-point performance against the New York Knicks in the fifth game of his comeback in 1995, Harper was the victim on many of the fadeaway jumpers. Harper's physical style of play with Jordan was akin to tugging on Superman's cape.
JOHN STARKS
Yes, there's room for two Knicks on this list. Like Harper, Starks often made the mistake of getting Jordan riled up. Starks was the primary victim as Jordan scored 54 points in Game 4 of the 1993 Eastern Conference finals to even the series after New York won the first two games.
_________________ I was unsure what to do; I'd never seen a girl choke on dick before. I thought that only happened in rap songs.
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:49 am Posts: 7777 Location: In your pants
Go_State wrote:
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
Express your disagreements.
(This stems from a discussion started in the "heartbreaking moments" thread. Please split those posts into this one, mods.)
Fuck it, someone already listed the antithesis of this thread.
I dont like John Starks in the bottom five of this thread, I think for Mitch Richmond you could read him. No he didnt have the outside shot that Richmond had, but I think Starks had the same effect of making MJ expend energy on D.
Also, does Drexler deserve to be in the top 5? What the fuck did he ever do to stop the Bulls swooping straight through? Drexler was 6'7, so what? Jordan was 6'6 and had him in layers with pace.
_________________ Baby there's something about the hula.....
JOE DUMARS No one was capable of stopping Jordan one-on-one, but Dumars had more success than most because he focused on playing fundamental defense and wasn't intimidated. Jordan always mentioned Dumars when asked to name his toughest defenders, but the competition also brought out the best in Jordan at times. He scored 61 points in an overtime win against the Detroit Pistons in 1987 and added a 59-point effort in 1988.
MITCH RICHMOND Granted, Richmond isn't noted for his defense, but that was part of his secret. Richmond, a high-scoring guard in his own right, made Jordan work hard and expend a great deal of energy on defense. That often left Jordan with less in the tank on offense.
ALVIN ROBERTSON A teammate of Jordan's on the 1984 Olympic team, Robertson was one of the best guard defenders of his generation. Super quick with incredible balance and fast hands, Robertson had the ability to steal the ball from anyone -- including Jordan.
CLYDE DREXLER If the Portland Trail Blazers hadn't drafted Drexler the year before, there is no way Jordan would have slipped down to the Bulls at No. 3. Drexler's size (6-7) was a big asset in keeping Jordan out of the post.
ROLANDO BLACKMAN The longtime Dallas Mavericks guard wasn't fully appreciated as a defender, but was a tough matchup for anyone in the late 1980s.
THE BOTTOM FIVE
CRAIG EHLO Will go down in history as the sap who was trying to get a hand in Jordan's face as he made "The Shot," which eliminated the Cleveland Cavaliers from the 1989 playoffs, and also as the defender torched for Jordan's career-high 69 points in 1990. Ehlo was burnt more often than toast at the neighborhood diner because Lenny Wilkens, then the Cavaliers' coach, refused to double-team Jordan.
DELL CURRY The best thing that can be said of Curry's defensive abilities is that he Ãs a heck of an outside shooter. Didn't possess the quickness or the jumping ability to bother Jordan especially when he returned to North Carolina to play before the folks in his home state.
DAN MAJERLE The Phoenix Suns might have had a shot at winning the 1993 NBA Finals if Majerle could have managed to do a better job. Jordan pumped in 56 points in Game 4 to help the Bulls take a 3-1 lead.
DEREK HARPER During Jordan's 55-point performance against the New York Knicks in the fifth game of his comeback in 1995, Harper was the victim on many of the fadeaway jumpers. Harper's physical style of play with Jordan was akin to tugging on Superman's cape.
JOHN STARKS Yes, there's room for two Knicks on this list. Like Harper, Starks often made the mistake of getting Jordan riled up. Starks was the primary victim as Jordan scored 54 points in Game 4 of the 1993 Eastern Conference finals to even the series after New York won the first two games.
this list is retarded. how can you have guys who played for Western Conference teams in the top 5? And WTF is Derek Harper (a PG who may have gotten torched by him in game) doing in the bottom five? This must be a pretty lazy writer....
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
as AS said, it was a TEAM effort. Saying Dumars was "head and shoulders above" completely ignores the Pistons strategy vs. Jordan. It certainly wasn't "let's leave Dumars on an island and see if he can handle him one on one".
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
as AS said, it was a TEAM effort. Saying Dumars was "head and shoulders above" completely ignores the Pistons strategy vs. Jordan. It certainly wasn't "let's leave Dumars on an island and see if he can handle him one on one".
there is no such thing as a shutdown defended in bball like there is a shutdown corner in football. but joe d used his abilities/skill in conjunction with the pistons overall scheme to help slow jordan down. the theory with most of the teams who played mike was, let him score 70, but stop everyone else. it wasnt until mike developed trust in his team that he was able to truly dominate the game of basketball (on a championship level). so even if he was held to under 20 pts a game, he still got key rebounds, made key assists and steals that helped his team out. once mike figured out how to be a better all-around player, thats when he became truly unstoppable no matter the defense you threw at him, cause he is one of the very few in sports history who could flip his switch on and off at his leisure
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
as AS said, it was a TEAM effort. Saying Dumars was "head and shoulders above" completely ignores the Pistons strategy vs. Jordan. It certainly wasn't "let's leave Dumars on an island and see if he can handle him one on one".
there is no such thing as a shutdown defended in bball like there is a shutdown corner in football. but joe d used his abilities/skill in conjunction with the pistons overall scheme to help slow jordan down. the theory with most of the teams who played mike was, let him score 70, but stop everyone else. it wasnt until mike developed trust in his team that he was able to truly dominate the game of basketball (on a championship level). so even if he was held to under 20 pts a game, he still got key rebounds, made key assists and steals that helped his team out. once mike figured out how to be a better all-around player, thats when he became truly unstoppable no matter the defense you threw at him, cause he is one of the very few in sports history who could flip his switch on and off at his leisure
sure there is.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
as AS said, it was a TEAM effort. Saying Dumars was "head and shoulders above" completely ignores the Pistons strategy vs. Jordan. It certainly wasn't "let's leave Dumars on an island and see if he can handle him one on one".
there is no such thing as a shutdown defended in bball like there is a shutdown corner in football. but joe d used his abilities/skill in conjunction with the pistons overall scheme to help slow jordan down. the theory with most of the teams who played mike was, let him score 70, but stop everyone else. it wasnt until mike developed trust in his team that he was able to truly dominate the game of basketball (on a championship level). so even if he was held to under 20 pts a game, he still got key rebounds, made key assists and steals that helped his team out. once mike figured out how to be a better all-around player, thats when he became truly unstoppable no matter the defense you threw at him, cause he is one of the very few in sports history who could flip his switch on and off at his leisure
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
Go_State wrote:
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
as AS said, it was a TEAM effort. Saying Dumars was "head and shoulders above" completely ignores the Pistons strategy vs. Jordan. It certainly wasn't "let's leave Dumars on an island and see if he can handle him one on one".
Hell, I think I still have the old NBA videos where Chuck Daly explains "The Jordan Rules". If I remember correctly they were "Kick MJ's ass".
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
as AS said, it was a TEAM effort. Saying Dumars was "head and shoulders above" completely ignores the Pistons strategy vs. Jordan. It certainly wasn't "let's leave Dumars on an island and see if he can handle him one on one".
Hell, I think I still have the old NBA videos where Chuck Daly explains "The Jordan Rules". If I remember correctly they were "Kick MJ's ass".
its not that people are saying that joe d was the best defender, its MJ saying Joe D was the one he hated to go up against, theres a big difference there. but even still, i think ill take MJ's opinion on this
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
Peeps wrote:
Athletic Supporter wrote:
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
Go_State wrote:
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
as AS said, it was a TEAM effort. Saying Dumars was "head and shoulders above" completely ignores the Pistons strategy vs. Jordan. It certainly wasn't "let's leave Dumars on an island and see if he can handle him one on one".
Hell, I think I still have the old NBA videos where Chuck Daly explains "The Jordan Rules". If I remember correctly they were "Kick MJ's ass".
its not that people are saying that joe d was the best defender, its MJ saying Joe D was the one he hated to go up against, theres a big difference there. but even still, i think ill take MJ's opinion on this
Hey, so will I. Chuck Daly just broke down the defensive strategy that they Pistons used. Sure, Dumars had to cover MJ man-for-man, someone has to.
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
as AS said, it was a TEAM effort. Saying Dumars was "head and shoulders above" completely ignores the Pistons strategy vs. Jordan. It certainly wasn't "let's leave Dumars on an island and see if he can handle him one on one".
there is no such thing as a shutdown defended in bball like there is a shutdown corner in football. but joe d used his abilities/skill in conjunction with the pistons overall scheme to help slow jordan down. the theory with most of the teams who played mike was, let him score 70, but stop everyone else. it wasnt until mike developed trust in his team that he was able to truly dominate the game of basketball (on a championship level). so even if he was held to under 20 pts a game, he still got key rebounds, made key assists and steals that helped his team out. once mike figured out how to be a better all-around player, thats when he became truly unstoppable no matter the defense you threw at him, cause he is one of the very few in sports history who could flip his switch on and off at his leisure
There is no such thing as a shutdown corner in football anymore, but that is a discussion for another time.
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
as AS said, it was a TEAM effort. Saying Dumars was "head and shoulders above" completely ignores the Pistons strategy vs. Jordan. It certainly wasn't "let's leave Dumars on an island and see if he can handle him one on one".
there is no such thing as a shutdown defended in bball like there is a shutdown corner in football. but joe d used his abilities/skill in conjunction with the pistons overall scheme to help slow jordan down. the theory with most of the teams who played mike was, let him score 70, but stop everyone else. it wasnt until mike developed trust in his team that he was able to truly dominate the game of basketball (on a championship level). so even if he was held to under 20 pts a game, he still got key rebounds, made key assists and steals that helped his team out. once mike figured out how to be a better all-around player, thats when he became truly unstoppable no matter the defense you threw at him, cause he is one of the very few in sports history who could flip his switch on and off at his leisure
There is no such thing as a shutdown corner in football anymore, but that is a discussion for another time.
anymore...but in his prime, how often did offenses throw at primetime?
I believe Joe Dumars was head and shoulders above anybody else in curtailing Jordan's offensive ability. I don't believe anybody else was close. Last I checked, Michael agreed.
as AS said, it was a TEAM effort. Saying Dumars was "head and shoulders above" completely ignores the Pistons strategy vs. Jordan. It certainly wasn't "let's leave Dumars on an island and see if he can handle him one on one".
there is no such thing as a shutdown defended in bball like there is a shutdown corner in football. but joe d used his abilities/skill in conjunction with the pistons overall scheme to help slow jordan down. the theory with most of the teams who played mike was, let him score 70, but stop everyone else. it wasnt until mike developed trust in his team that he was able to truly dominate the game of basketball (on a championship level). so even if he was held to under 20 pts a game, he still got key rebounds, made key assists and steals that helped his team out. once mike figured out how to be a better all-around player, thats when he became truly unstoppable no matter the defense you threw at him, cause he is one of the very few in sports history who could flip his switch on and off at his leisure
sure there is.
who?
are you saying there's never been any shut down defenders in the NBA....or there aren't any right now? I mean, there's been plenty of NBA players who, when they wanted, could take away the other team's best offensive option.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
Bruce Bowen is pretty close to being a shut-down defender. I'm not sure if he qualifies since I'm not sure what the qualifiers are, but he made Dirk his bitch in the playoffs this year, and I seem to remember him going one-on-one with Kobe and shutting him down too. He fouls a lot and doesn't get called on it, but maybe that's just part of it.
Bruce Bowen is pretty close to being a shut-down defender. I'm not sure if he qualifies since I'm not sure what the qualifiers are, but he made Dirk his bitch in the playoffs this year, and I seem to remember him going one-on-one with Kobe and shutting him down too. He fouls a lot and doesn't get called on it, but maybe that's just part of it.
Tayshawn Prince is up there too.
he's the obvious guy who's playing right now.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
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