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 Post subject: Chicago Sun Times' 50 Greatest NBA Players list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:32 pm 
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Dr. J's deserves to be in the top 10 and Earl the Pearl shouldnt have been taken out...and Stockton deserves to be in the top 15...good list tho.


50: William "Pop'' Gates, G, 6-2: He was the star on the all-black New York Rens. In 1939, he led them to a 112-7 record that included 68 victories in a row. Former New York Knicks coach Red Holzman called Gates ''the greatest player around in his day.'' But white teams refused to sign him. He symbolizes countless who were denied.


49: George Mikan, C, 6-10: At 245 pounds, he would be a little too light for a center today, and his limited shooting range would force him to take a lot of beatings banging with bigger players in the lane. At a time when he was consistently the biggest player on the floor, he averaged 22.6 points and 13.4 rebounds during his nine-year career.


48: Bob Cousy, G, 6-1: He had the good fortune to play on the Boston Celtics' dynasty teams with Hall of Famers Bill Russell, John Havlicek, Sam Jones, Bailey Howell and Don Nelson and earned six championship rings. But he was gifted in his own right, averaging 18.4 points, 7.5 assists and 5.2 rebounds.


47: John Havlicek, G, 6-5: He was deadly as a spot-up shooter from the wings, capping fast breaks with sweet jumpers. His defense was decent, and he exhibited sound fundamentals as he helped lead the Celtics to eight NBA titles. He averaged 20.8 points, 6.3 rebounds and 4.8 assists in 16 seasons.


46: Lenny Wilkens, G, 6-1: The NBA's winningest coach is one of three men to be inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame as a player and as a coach. During his 15 seasons, he averaged 16.5 points, 6.7 assists and 4.7 rebounds. He coached the Seattle SuperSonics to the 1979 NBA crown.


45: Billy Cunningham, F, 6-7: He excelled as a player and as a coach, but he was too slow and slight of frame for today's game. He averaged 20.8 points, four assists and 10.1 rebounds in nine NBA seasons with the Philadelphia 76ers, whom he coached to the 1983 NBA championship.


44: Walt Bellamy, C, 6-10: He never was on a championship team, but he was as big and as solid as they come in the low post in his day. During his 14 NBA seasons playing for five teams, he averaged 20.1 points and 13.7 rebounds. His main drawbacks are that he was slow and shot 63 percent from the line.


43: Rick Barry, F, 6-7: Here is a guy who could run-and-gun all night, and he shot 90 percent from the line. During his second season with the Golden State Warriors, he led the league by averaging 35.6 points. He led the Warriors to the 1975 NBA championship. He averaged 23.2 points, 6.5 rebounds and 5.1 assists during his 10-year NBA career.


42: Dennis Rodman, F, 6-7 : He is as weird and as controversial as players come, was an atrocious shooter and averaged only 7.3 points to go with his 13.1 rebounds in his 14 NBA seasons. But he has six championship rings, seven league rebounding titles and two Defensive Player of the Year awards to his credit.


41: Kevin McHale, F, 6-10: In his 13 seasons, all with the Celtics, he averaged 17.9 points and 7.3 rebounds and was on three championship teams. His post work is some of the most impressive for a big man. He had a deceptive quickness to slither through defenders.


40: Moses Malone, C, 6-10: The first of the preps-to-pros to make good, the 21-year veteran played his first two seasons in the ABA, where he averaged 17.2 points and 12.9 rebounds, and his last 19 in the NBA, where he averaged 20.6 points and 12.2 rebounds and helped the 76ers win the 1983 NBA championship. He lacked shooting range, but the three-time MVP was an outstanding low-post scorer.


39: Bob Lanier, C, 6-11: He had one of the biggest rumps and two of the biggest feet in the game, and once he posted low, nobody could stop the 265-pounder. Also one of the best outside-shooting centers in the game, he played 14 seasons and averaged 20.1 points, 10.1 rebounds and 3.1 assists.



38: Scottie Pippen, 6-7, F: His forte was his strong defense and his all-around game. In his prime, he was the perfect complement for Michael Jordan. They led the Bulls to six championships. The 17-year veteran is expected to retire after this season. He averaged 16.1 points, 6.4 rebounds and 5.2 assists in his career.


37: Walt Frazier, G, 6-4: He was one of the NBA's first big point guards with deceptive speed and quickness and was a solid defender. In his 14 seasons, he averaged 18.9 points, 6.1 assists and 5.9 rebounds and led the Knicks to two NBA titles.


36: Pete Maravich, G, 6-5: As basketball magicians go, few possessed the passing and scoring magic of this 10-year player, who averaged 24.2 points, 5.4 assists and 4.2 rebounds. He also was an excellent free-throw shooter.



35: Clyde Drexler, G, 6-7: He is another pioneer big guard who was extremely fast and quick and could shoot with three-point range. A member of the Houston Rockets' 1995 championship team, Drexler averaged 20.4 points, 5.6 assists and 6.1 rebounds during his 15-year career.


34: Robert Parish, C, 7-1: Like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, he was an extremely well-conditioned athlete who played 21 NBA seasons, averaged 14.5 points and 9.1 rebounds and helped Larry Bird and McHale lead the Celtics to three championships. The outstanding shot-blocker was also on the Bulls' 1997 championship team and retired at age 44.


33: Gary Payton, G, 6-4 (above): The 13-year veteran and nine-time All-Star consistently has been one of the premier passers and defenders at his position. He plays conventional point guard in that he looks to pass first.



32: Dave Cowens, C, 6-9: He was one of the best small centers in the league, using his superior speed, quickness and shooting range to out-work bigger foes. He played 11 seasons and averaged 17.6 points, 13.6 rebounds and 3.8 assists for the Celtics and Milwaukee Bucks. He helped the Celtics win two championships.


31: Patrick Ewing, C, 7-0: He helped lead the Knicks to the Finals twice before losing to the Rockets and San Antonio Spurs. He averaged 21 points and 9.8 rebounds during his 17-year career. Now he is a Rockets assistant, helping to develop 7-5 center Yao Ming, who very well might replace Ewing on this list in a few years. Yao already has established a competitive rivalry with Shaquille O'Neal and averaged 17.5 points, nine rebounds and 1.9 blocked shots in his second season.


30: Bill Walton, C, 6-11: Nobody knows how good he could have been because assorted injuries dogged his 10-year career, forcing him to sit out three seasons and limiting his effectiveness when he did play. But the heady defender averaged 13.3 points, 3.4 assists and 10.5 rebounds while earning championship rings with the Portland Trail Blazers in 1977 and the Celtics in 1986.


29: Elvin Hayes, C, 6-9: He was one of the most mobile power forwards in the game and could kill teams inside and outside. During his 16-year career, the 12-time All-Star averaged 21 points and 12.5 rebounds and helped lead the Washington Bullets to the 1978 title.



28: John Stockton, G, 6-1: The 10-time All-Star is the NBA's career leader in assists (15,806) and steals (3,265). He played all 19 seasons with the Utah Jazz before retiring after last season. He went to the Finals twice, but Michael Jordan kept him and Karl Malone from getting a ring.


27: Dominique Wilkins, F, 6-8: One of the most dynamic forwards to play the game. He had tremendous shooting range and was one of the best dunkers in history. He averaged 24.8 points, 2.5 assists and 6.7 rebounds in his 15-year career.


26: Bob McAdoo, F, 6-9: He played center and power forward during his 14 seasons, led the NBA in scoring for three consecutive seasons and averaged 22.1 points, 2.3 assists and 9.4 rebounds during his career. Revered as a pure shooter with great range, he also shot 50.3 percent from the field.



25: Willis Reed, C, 6-10: He played all 10 of his seasons with the Knicks and led them to NBA titles in 1970 and 1973. There was nothing flashy about his game, just a basic, aggressive, hard-nosed approach. His career averages are 18.7 points and 12.9 rebounds, and he consistently outplayed bigger opponents.



24: Tracy McGrady, G, 6-8 (above): He completed his seventh season by leading the league in scoring for the second year in a row, averaging 28 points. This season, he scored a league-best 62 points in a game. Unfortunately, he does little more than score.


23: Jason Kidd, G, 6-4: One of the most physical point guards in history. He led the league in assists this season for the fourth time in his 10-year career and has led the Nets into the last two Finals. He leads the league in triple-doubles and is consistently among the league leaders in double-doubles.


22: Allen Iverson, G, 6-0: A mighty mite who is an outstanding player, but his professionalism and dedication to his craft are subpar. The No. 1 overall draft pick of 1996 has led the league in scoring twice and has distinguished himself as a top gun, a rugged competitor and gritty defender.


21: Jerry Lucas, F, 6-9: The seven-time All-Star has a photographic memory to go with his picturesque game. He played with the grace of a ballet dancer and averaged 17 points, 3.3 assists and 15.6 rebounds during his 11-year career. In the 1965-66 season, he averaged 21.5 points and 21.1 rebounds. He helped the Knicks win the 1973 title.



20: Julius Erving, F, 6-7: He dazzled legions with acrobatic layups and thunderous dunks, and his fluid moves helped elevate basketball to the category of fine art. He played his first five seasons in the ABA, averaging 28.7 points and 12.1 rebounds. He played 11 NBA seasons with the 76ers, averaging 22 points, 6.7 rebounds and 3.9 assists and helping them to the 1983 title.



19: Charles Barkley, F, 6-6: He swears he's 6-4 to make his accomplishments all the more amazing. ''There'll never be another 6-4 player to do what I did,'' he said. The 16-year veteran and 11-time All-Star averaged 22.1 points, 11.7 rebounds and 3.9 assists.


18: Isiah Thomas, G, 6-1: The Chicago native is respected as one of the toughest and most determined guards to play the game, and the Hall of Famer has achieved in every area of pro basketball. He once scored 25 points in a quarter and 16 points in 93 seconds. He led the Detroit Pistons to the 1989 and 1990 titles.


17: Jerry West, G, 6-2: His model professionalism and outstanding basketball talent endeared him to the NBA so much that the league uses his likeness for its logo. He played 14 seasons for the Lakers, averaging 27 points, 6.7 assists and 5.8 rebounds. He helped lead them to the 1972 championship and masterminded the "Showtime'' dynasty.


16: Bob Pettit, C, 6-9: Though weighing only 215 pounds, his great speed, quickness and toughness enabled him to play center in the '50s and '60s. He averaged 26.4 points, three assists and 16.2 rebounds during his 11-year career, and he led the St. Louis Hawks to the 1958 championship.


15: David Robinson, C, 7-1 (below right): They called him ''The Admiral,'' and the Naval Academy graduate and No. 1 pick in the 1987 draft kept his Spurs shipshape. He played 14 seasons, averaging 21.1 points and 10.6 rebounds, and helped lead the Spurs to two championships before retiring after last season.


14: Tim Duncan, F, 7-0 (below left): The No. 1 overall pick in the of 1997, the six-time All-Star already has led the Spurs to two championships and has them in title contention again, even with the retirement of Robinson. He averaged 22.3 points and 12.4 rebounds this season and is one of the premier defenders in the league.


13: Elgin Baylor, F, 6-5: If Barkley really wants to see what can be done with a 6-5 frame, he needs to look no further than Baylor, a 14-year veteran and 11-time All-Star who averaged 27.4 points, 4.3 assists and 13.5 rebounds during his career. It is said he could post up Bill Russell and pass like Magic Johnson.


12: Kobe Bryant, G, 6-7: Through eight seasons after coming straight out of high school, many dub him as the second coming of Michael Jordan because of his great versatility and all-round talent. But while Jordan was 28 when he won his first of six rings, Bryant already has three at age 25. He averaged 24 points this season.



11: Hakeem Olajuwon, C, 6-11: During Jordan's 17-month retirement, Olajuwon led the Rockets to back-to-back titles between the Bulls' three-peats. He played 18 NBA seasons, led the league in blocked shots three times and in rebounds twice and averaged 21.8 points, 11.1 rebounds and 3.1 blocks before retiring in 2003.



10: Kevin Garnett, F, 6-11 (left): In his ninth season after coming straight out of high school, the MVP front-runner turned in a career season, averaging 24.2 points, 13.9 rebounds and five assists. He led the Minnesota Timberwolves to a club-record 58 victories and the best record in the Western Conference.


9: Bill Russell, C, 6-10: At 220 pounds, there is no way in today's game Russell could average the 15.1 points, 4.3 assists and 22.5 rebounds he averaged during his 13-year career for the Celtics, mostly in an eight-team league. He led them to 11 NBA titles and only shot 56 percent from the line. Yes, he had little competition.



8: Shaquille O'Neal, C, 7-1: He calls himself the most dominant big man in the game today, and nobody will dare argue with the 340-pounder. He's still in his prime at age 32.



7: Oscar Robertson, G, 6-5: In his second season, he averaged an unprecedented 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds and 11.4 assists for the only triple-double average in league history. During his 14-year career, he averaged 25.7 points, 9.5 assists and 7.5 rebounds and helped lead the Milwaukee Bucks to the 1971 title.



6: Karl Malone, F, 6-9: He ranks second in NBA history in career scoring and is considered the best power forward to play the game. He played his first 18 seasons with the Jazz, leading them into the playoffs every season while averaging 25.4 points, 3.5 assists and 10.2 rebounds. Injuries diminished his playing time and production to personal lows this season after he signed with the Lakers as a free agent. But he remains one of the best at his position.



5: Larry Bird, F, 6-9: The self-described "Hick from French Lick'' played 13 seasons for the Celtics, led them to three championships and averaged 24.3 points, 6.3 assists and 10 rebounds before injuries forced him to retire. His dedication to playing hard on both ends landed him in the Hall of Fame, and now he's running the Indiana Pacers.



4: Magic Johnson, G, 6-9: He smashed the myth that NBA point guards had to be little guys and that NBA centers had to be big guys. He led the Lakers to five championships while playing all five positions as the need dictated. He averaged 19.5 points, 11.2 assists and 7.2 rebounds during his 13-year career.


3: Wilt Chamberlain, C, 7-1: As the biggest and most dominant player of his day, he once scored a record 100 points in a game and averaged 50.4 points and 25.7 rebounds in 1961-62. Despite averaging 30.1 points and 22.9 rebounds during his 14-year career, he only won two championships because he lacked a suitable supporting cast.



2: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, C, 7-2: Before retiring at age 42, he played 20 seasons, averaged 24.6 points, 3.6 assists and 11.2 rebounds and led his teams to six championships. His trademark sky hook made him the NBA's career scoring leader.


1: Michael Jordan, G, 6-6: He not only has been called the greatest basketball player of all time, but the greatest athlete of the 20th century by ESPN. He played the first 13 of his 15 seasons with the Bulls and led them to six titles. He won 10 scoring titles, five MVP awards, six Finals MVP awards, one Defensive Player of the Year award, two slam-dunk titles and three All-Star MVP awards, and his career averages are 30.1 points, 6.2 rebounds and 5.3 assists.


Out
Nate Archibald
Paul Arizin
Dave Bing
Dave DeBusschere
George Gervin
Hal Greer
Sam Jones
Earl Monroe
Bill Sharman
Nate Thurmond
Wes Unseld
James Worthy



IN
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Allen Iverson
Tracy McGrady
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Kevin Garnett
Bob Lanier
D. Wilkins
Bob McAdoo
Dennis Rodman
Pop Gates


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:41 pm 
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Boooo.
Bryant and Garnett are way, way, way, way too high.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:44 pm 
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Athletic Supporter wrote:
Boooo.
Bryant and Garnett are way, way, way, way too high.


Bryant is the Scottie Pippen of the 00's. He'll never win anything on his own without another star.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:49 pm 
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Garnett above Hakeem....wow


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:52 pm 
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zutmon wrote:
Athletic Supporter wrote:
Boooo.
Bryant and Garnett are way, way, way, way too high.


Bryant is the Scottie Pippen of the 00's. He'll never win anything on his own without another star.
Exactly. I'm not sure I put Malone in the top 10 either. I'd sure as hell have the Big O higher, Pippen wouldn't be anywhere near the list, Iverson wouldn't scratch the list, Kidd would have a hard time making it, McGrady shouldn't be there(higher than Stockton?), Maravich is too low...he'd annihilate Bryant, Barry and Moses should be higher..christ there's so many current guys that haven't done shit I was looking for LeBron.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:58 pm 
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Athletic Supporter wrote:
zutmon wrote:
Athletic Supporter wrote:
Boooo.
Bryant and Garnett are way, way, way, way too high.


Bryant is the Scottie Pippen of the 00's. He'll never win anything on his own without another star.
Exactly. I'm not sure I put Malone in the top 10 either. I'd sure as hell have the Big O higher, Pippen wouldn't be anywhere near the list, Iverson wouldn't scratch the list, Kidd would have a hard time making it, McGrady shouldn't be there(higher than Stockton?), Maravich is too low...he'd annihilate Bryant, Barry and Moses should be higher..christ there's so many current guys that haven't done shit I was looking for LeBron.


I'm shocked that a Chicago newspaper would have George Mican so low. My god he dominated the sport. Its too early for Lebron. Good player just a little too early. Iverson should be on the list but lower down.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:01 pm 
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i am shocked by this list

how in the hell could they not have charles I'm-6'10"-and-can't-make-a-layup smith?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:01 pm 
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Shaq is low and there is no way Garnett should be above Hakeem. people forget just how good of a post player that guy was.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:02 pm 
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Jimjamin wrote:
Shaq is low and there is no way Garnett should be above Hakeem. people forget just how good of a post player that guy was.
Good point about Garnett/Hakeem for sure.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:08 pm 
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Yeah, McGrady higher than Pistol Pete, John Havlicek, Bob Cousy, John Stockton, Clyde The Glide, and the Human Fucking Highlight Reel. :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:28 pm 
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Athletic Supporter wrote:
Jimjamin wrote:
Shaq is low and there is no way Garnett should be above Hakeem. people forget just how good of a post player that guy was.
Good point about Garnett/Hakeem for sure.


Hakeem had the best "moves" of any big man I ever saw. It was almost unfair. The man was 7' tall and moved like he was 6' tall. Nobody was both big enough and fast enough to guard him down low.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:35 pm 
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I liked David Robinson a lot growing up and that one move Hakeem made on Robinson in the playoff that they always play over and over again killed me.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:07 pm 
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Wow, I still cant belive Reggie Miller isnt on there. He has been in the NBA 18 years now and he is the games best three point shooter. This list is way off in many ways.

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PS: Shaq is 325 not 340. :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:12 pm 
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The Fresh Prince wrote:
Wow, I still cant belive Reggie Miller isnt on there. He has been in the NBA 18 years now and he is the games best three point shooter. This list is way off in many ways.


if it's any consolation, he was voted #1 on both the list of Best Floppers of All Time and the list of Pro Athletes Most Likely To Get Their Ass Kicked By Their Sister.

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Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
The Fresh Prince wrote:
Wow, I still cant belive Reggie Miller isnt on there. He has been in the NBA 18 years now and he is the games best three point shooter. This list is way off in many ways.


if it's any consolation, he was voted #1 on both the list of Best Floppers of All Time and the list of Pro Athletes Most Likely To Get Their Ass Kicked By Their Sister.


Much better!

Ask Michael Jordan if he thinks Reggie is one of the 50 greatest... Jordan played against Reggie for many years with a lot of good games by both players. The Pacers beat the 72-10 Bulls twice that year and they took the Bulls to 7 games in the Eastern Finals that year too.

Reggie must be number 51.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:24 pm 
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The Fresh Prince wrote:
Wow, I still cant belive Reggie Miller isnt on there. He has been in the NBA 18 years now and he is the games best three point shooter. This list is way off in many ways.
I'd put Reggie on before I put Dominique on, that's for damned sure.


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I don't think Mikan deserves to be on it at all. 22 and 13 in an era where he was 3 and a half feet taller than all the other players? How is that impressive? Why does he always get honored for being the first tall uncoordinated white guy in the NBA?


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i thought cousy was a little low and oscar should have been higher.

hakeem is a beast; he has a house down the street from my parents house (where I am right now).


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Mitchell613 wrote:
i thought cousy was a little low and oscar should have been higher.

hakeem is a beast; he has a house down the street from my parents house (where I am right now).


I've met 2 of Hakeem's brothers, they own Denny's franchises.


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