Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:23 am
AnalLog
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:28 am Posts: 28541 Location: PORTLAND, ME
If/ When Theo becomes the new GM I'd say he does something like:
Buys-out Aramis Ramirez. Trades for Chone Figgins to be everyday 3B. Signs Prince Fielder to 7-year deal to be everyday 1B. Signs J.D. Drew to a 5-year deal to be everyday RF. Signs Yu Darvish to a 7-year deal (sets new record for a posting fee). Signs Tim Wakefield to 3-year deal. Signs Brad Lidge to 4-year deal.
Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:19 pm
Supersonic
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 10620 Location: Chicago, IL Gender: Male
So everything's official except the compensation, which should get worked out today.
As a Cubs' fan, I would be foolish not to be optimistic. While I would have preferred Andrew Friedman from the Rays, this is a nice consolidation prize. I'm just concerned where Epstein goes from here, given there are sooooo many things about this current club that need to be addressed. Also, he did have a lot of albatross contracts that is also currently plaguing the Cubs.
Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:27 pm
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:36 pm Posts: 3271 Location: Chicago
Part of Epstein's free agent disasters (Matsusaka, Lackey, Lugo, Crawford, etc.) had to do with Red Sox ownership trying to keep up with the Yankees payroll. He won't have that problem in the NL Central.
Epstein would love to allocate more money toward the draft and player development and fill in the rest here and there with FA's, not the other way around like it eventually turned out in Boston. And it’s clear that's what Rickett's wants do to. A very good hire, but it'll take some time to turn this ship around.
_________________ strobe lights and blown speakers.
Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:35 pm
AnalLog
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:28 am Posts: 28541 Location: PORTLAND, ME
pnjguy wrote:
Part of Epstein's free agent disasters (Matsusaka, Lackey, Lugo, Crawford, etc.) had to do with Red Sox ownership trying to keep up with the Yankees payroll. He won't have that problem in the NL Central.
Epstein would love to allocate more money toward the draft and player development and fill in the rest here and there with FA's, not the other way around like it eventually turned out in Boston. And it’s clear that's what Rickett's wants do to. A very good hire, but it'll take some time to turn this ship around.
wait, what? the sox have drafted well since he got here and developed a number of strong players (one MVP so far). but that has as much to do w/ theo as signing renteria, matt clement, david wells, lugo, j.d. drew, dice-k, bobby jenks, and carl crawford. let's not nit-pick.
also, if not for ownership, theo holds on to hanley and the sox don't win in '07 b/c they don't have beckett and mike lowell. apparently ownership wanted to keep damon, theo held his ground and shipped out a solid catching prospect for coco crisp (after getting marte for renteria). remember the gabbard & murphy trade for eric gagne?
theo's got some good ideas, but he'll make some bad decisions too.
thanks to the boston globe for putting this list together:
Theo Epstein’s first transaction as the general manager of the Red Sox was signing lefthanded reliever Steve Woodard on Nov. 25, 2002. His last was to acquire 1B/OF Conor Jackson from Oakland for righthanded reliever Jason Rice and cash on Aug. 31, 2011.
During his nearly nine years on the job Epstein made hundreds of deals. Some worked out and others didn’t. Here’s a breakdown of the more memorable ones.
FREE AGENTS Finds DH David Ortiz (2003, 1 year, $1.2 million) INF Bill Mueller (2002, 2 years, $4.5 million) RHP Keith Foulke (2004, 3 years, $20.2 million) LHP Hideki Okajima (2006, 2 years, $2.5 million) RHP Takashi Saito (2009, 1 year, $1.5 million) 3B Adrian Beltre (2010, 1 year, $9 million) RHP Alfredo Aceves (2011, I year, $650,000)
Busts SS Edgar Renteria (2004, 4 years, $40 million) RHP Matt Clement (2004, 3 years, $25.8 million) SS Julio Lugo (2006, 4 years, $36 million) RHP Daisuke Matsuzaka (2006, 6 years, $52 million plus $51 million posting fee) RHP Brad Penny (2008, 1 year, $5 million) RHP John Smoltz (2009, 1 year, $5.5 million) RHP John Lackey (2009, 5 years, $82.5 million) OF Mike Cameron (2009, 2 years, $15.5 million) RHP Bobby Jenks (2 years, $12 million)
Mixed reviews LHP David Wells (2004, 2 years, $8.1 million) OF J.D. Drew (2007, 5 years, $70 million) SS Marco Scutaro (2009, 2 years, $12.5 million)
Too soon to tell OF Carl Crawford (2010, 7 years, $142 million)
TRADES Good swaps 1B Kevin Millar for cash (2003, from Marlins) RHP Scott Williamson for two prospects (2003, from Reds) RHP Curt Schilling for four prospects (2003, from Diamondbacks) INF Mark Bellhorn for one prospect (2003 from Dodgers) 1B Doug Mientkiewicz and SS Orlando Cabrera for SS Nomar Garciaparra and OF Matt Murton (2004 with Twins and Expos) OF Dave Roberts for OF Henri Stanley (2004 from Dodgers) OF Jason Bay for OF Manny Ramirez, RHP Craig Hansen and OF Brandon Moss (2008 with Pirates and Dodgers) SS Alex Gonzales for a prospect (2009 from Reds) C Jarrod Saltalamacchia for three prospects (2010 from Rangers) 1B Adrian Gonzalez for three prospects (2010 from Padres)
Bad swaps OF Wily Mo Pena for RHP Bronson Arroyo (2006 from Reds) C Doug Mirabelli for RHP Cla Meredith and C Josh Bard (2006 from Padres) RHP Eric Gagne for OF David Murphy and two prospects (2007 from Rangers)
Mixed reviews RHP Byung-Hyun Kim for INF Shea Hillenbrand (2003 from Diamondbacks) C-1B Victor Martinez for RHP Justin Masterson and two prospects (2009 from Indians)
CONTRACT EXTENSIONS Good deals RHP Tim Wakefield (2006, 1 year, $4 million with recurring options) DH David Ortiz (2004, 2 years, $12.5 million) RHP Josh Beckett (2006, 3 years, $30 million) 2B Dustin Pedroia (2008, 6 years, $40.5 million) 3B Kevin Youkilis (2009, 4 years, $41.13 million) LHP Jon Lester (2009, 5 years, $30 million)
Bad deals OF Coco Crisp (2006, 3 years, $15.5 million) RHP Curt Schilling (2007, 1 year, $8 million) 3B Mike Lowell (2007, 3 years, $37.5 million)
Too soon to tell Josh Beckett (2010, 4 years, $68 million) Clay Buchholz (2011, 4 years, $29.95 million) Adrian Gonzalez (2011, 7 years, $154 million)
Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:08 pm
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:36 pm Posts: 3271 Location: Chicago
EllisEamos wrote:
wait, what? the sox have drafted well since he got here and developed a number of strong players (one MVP so far). but that has as much to do w/ theo as signing renteria, matt clement, david wells, lugo, j.d. drew, dice-k, bobby jenks, and carl crawford. let's not nit-pick.
also, if not for ownership, theo holds on to hanley and the sox don't win in '07 b/c they don't have beckett and mike lowell. apparently ownership wanted to keep damon, theo held his ground and shipped out a solid catching prospect for coco crisp (after getting marte for renteria). remember the gabbard & murphy trade for eric gagne?
theo's got some good ideas, but he'll make some bad decisions too.
I'm not sure what you're arguing. Epstein's history shows that he can draft, develop players, and swings and misses alot in FA. And it's my belief that if he had his way, he wouldn't have made half of those bad signings. And he wants it his way, and Rickett's likes his way.
_________________ strobe lights and blown speakers.
Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:16 pm
a joke
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:08 am Posts: 22978 Gender: Male
That's a pretty good point. How many of those bad signings were either official "Make a splash" edicts from ownership, or reactionary responses to something the yankees were doing/going to do?
Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:31 pm
AnalLog
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:28 am Posts: 28541 Location: PORTLAND, ME
seriously, what are you two talking about?
theo (and his staff) did a nice job drafting and developing guys, but they also made a number of mistakes.
story #1:
theo wanted to get rid of manny as soon as he took the job. after helping to bring two world series to town, they finally found a suitor for him and brought in jason bay... for (basically) one season, before souring on him and thinking that moving jacoby to LF and signing mike cameron was a better idea.
story #2:
theo wanted to dump damon & pedro. he got his way and replaced them w/ coco crisp, matt clement, and wade miller.
story #3:
theo dumps orlando cabrera (after playing errorlessly at shortstop over playoffs & world series) for edgar renteria.
Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:32 pm
AnalLog
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:28 am Posts: 28541 Location: PORTLAND, ME
Chris_H_2 wrote:
Name one GM that has a 100% success rate on FA signings.
i'm not asking for 100% success, i'm just saying that the claim that Theo was only doing what the ownership wanted him to do and he wouldn't have made bad moves if left to his own design is giving him way too much credit.
Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:38 pm
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:36 pm Posts: 3271 Location: Chicago
EllisEamos wrote:
seriously, what are you two talking about?
theo (and his staff) did a nice job drafting and developing guys, but they also made a number of mistakes.
story #1:
theo wanted to get rid of manny as soon as he took the job. after helping to bring two world series to town, they finally found a suitor for him and brought in jason bay... for (basically) one season, before souring on him and thinking that moving jacoby to LF and signing mike cameron was a better idea.
story #2:
theo wanted to dump damon & pedro. he got his way and replaced them w/ coco crisp, matt clement, and wade miller.
story #3:
theo dumps orlando cabrera (after playing errorlessly at shortstop over playoffs & world series) for edgar renteria.
its better to get rid of players a year too early, than a year too late. He got what he wanted from Manny, Damon, Pedro, and Cabrera. Am i saying Epstein doesn't make mistakes like any other GM? No, and i don't know why you would get that impression from what i'm saying, other than you just have sour grapes.
_________________ strobe lights and blown speakers.
Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:38 pm
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:36 pm Posts: 3271 Location: Chicago
EllisEamos wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
Name one GM that has a 100% success rate on FA signings.
i'm not asking for 100% success, i'm just saying that the claim that Theo was only doing what the ownership wanted him to do and he wouldn't have made bad moves if left to his own design is giving him way too much credit.
I'm clearly talking about FA signings.
_________________ strobe lights and blown speakers.
Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:41 pm
a joke
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:08 am Posts: 22978 Gender: Male
EllisEamos wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
Name one GM that has a 100% success rate on FA signings.
i'm not asking for 100% success, i'm just saying that the claim that Theo was only doing what the ownership wanted him to do and he wouldn't have made bad moves if left to his own design is giving him way too much credit.
No one is saying that he was ONLY doing what ownership wanted. Just that it may have been a contributing factor to some of the bad deals.
Great article on how horrible boston is to former red sox on espn boston by the way.
Post subject: Re: Let's Drink! (The Official Chicago Cubs Thread)
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:42 pm
AnalLog
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:28 am Posts: 28541 Location: PORTLAND, ME
pnjguy wrote:
it's my belief that if he had his way, he wouldn't have made half of those bad signings. And he wants it his way, and Rickett's likes his way.
EllisEamos wrote:
i'm just saying that the claim that Theo was only doing what the ownership wanted him to do and he wouldn't have made bad moves if left to his own design is giving him way too much credit.
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