Hey, I guess as long as the players love and keep agreeing to below-market contracts, that's all that counts (but you would expect better results going forward). It's just strange that the team is vying for the worst record in baseball, has a system that is not all that it was cracked up to be, could lose one of their front-office guys to the Pirates, and has a ton of holes to fill, yet they're focusing on their manager and extending his contract.

And I thought you said earlier in the spring that the Cubs should model themselves on the White Sox and that Kenny Williams was doing it "the right way."

Hahn took his name out of the running for the pirates job.

All of there focus on players cannot be dealt with at this point in the season, might as well get ozzie done now and put all their energy in getting free agents/making trades in the off season.

Substance is always more important than the form. Kenny has made some moves that turned out bad, really bad. And thats all on him, but i believe he is doing it the right way. As far as the final decisions, he has made some bad moves. But i like the idea of the way he doing it.

The cubs, if we can go down that route in the thread. Have done nothing this season to prove to me they are doing it the right way. Barely .500 in the NL central after they spent 300 million dollars? They're going to be paying Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Zambrano a shit load of money when they are in their mid 30's. Thats going to set the franchise back many years if it hasn't already.

Don't forget headhunter....

see, this is what i mean.

You may disagree with the Cubs have done it, but just don't use the White Sox as an example of doing it the "right way."

In my opinon, as opposed to the cubs it is the right way. I believe in fiscal responsibility.

tell me how ozzie guillen is a headhunter?

Whatever. Have fun being "fiscally responsible" while competing against Tampa Bay and Florida for the worst record in baseball.

Being "fiscally repsonsible" doesn't mean not spending money, it means not spending stupid money. The white sox payroll is top 5 in baseball i believe. They're just not going get stuck paying just anybody market value into their mid 30's. They want to be able to be flexible. Which they have to be, because they don't have a bottomless pit of money.

So they're in the top 5 in baseball for payroll, and yet they're in the bottom 3 in terms of results. I know it's not all because of injuries because better teams have suffered more injuries than the White Sox. So how is it that they've spent money wisely?

They haven't. No GM is going to strike gold on every move. Kenny Williams has made poor decisions, not only in assessing what he has, but who he has brought in. It's all on him. The trick is to not set back the franchise back for years just because of stupid contracts and what the "market" thinks players should be paid.

But at what point do you say, "this is a bad contract?" Is it before, during, or after the contract (excluding obvious examples such as Barry Zito)?

The problem is, aside from a few glaring examples, in today's game it's no longer easy to point to a contract and determine that it's bad unless: (a) there was no need for an upgrade at the respective position; and (b) other teams weren't willing to shell out the same (or more) money. But market is a driving, determining force that you can't ignore.

For instance, how do the White Sox fix their glaring bullpen problem next year? If they sign 2 middle relievers at $4-5 million a year for 3 years a piece, conventional wisdom would suggest that both contracts are fiscally irresponsible. But if you absolutely need to upgrade, and other teams would spend $5-6 million for 4 years, the contracts aren't so bad. And we both know that the only way the White Sox are going to improve is to spend money for the bullpen (because they have no one to come in and fill those roles).

i

I agree, in today's game its almost impossible to judge what a good and bad contract is. Every team in the MLB has bad contracts, good contracts, and fair contracts. Those will always remain. However, what i think Kenny is doing, (and this is my interpretation of what he is trying to do from articles and interviews) is making sure that 1) if the contract does turn out to be considered "bad" that it will not force the team to do things that will be detrimental to the team such as trading good talent, letting up-coming free agents walk. In other words, they don't want to be hand cuffed. Example: The Uribe contract has turned out to be "bad" however, it has not, and will not hand-cuff the team because he is not owed money in the future. 2) That they have a "back-up" plan where that if a bad conract occurs, there will be some sort of reinforcements on the horizon such as minor leaguers. They may give a "bad" contract to crede, but they may feel that Josh Fields will be more than capable of replaceing him.

As you mentioned, you have the obvious "bad" contracts that you know are bad like Barry Zito, Carl Pavano, Kevin Brown, ect. In most of those cases, teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, ect have a back up plan as well, but it's money, not prospects. A team like the white sox are not able to do this unless they draw well. The team has showed that if people go to the park, they will spend the money, and they have kept they're promise. Tickets sold this year are up again, and i have no doubt they will use their resources to get who they want IF it doesn't handcuff them.

In saying that, Torii Hunter is a free agent. He may be commanding 15-18 million dollars for the next 5 years, and he may get it, but ill bet you its not in Chicago. If that contract turns out to be bad, the white sox would be hand cuffed. 1) they have no one on the horizon to replace him cheap (minor leaguer) and 2) they will be stuck paying a player in his mid 30's a bad contract. 3) And most importantly, Kenny won't have the resources to replace him. BUT, Hunter will get his money, from a team like the Yankees, Boston ect, why? because those teams don't get hand cuffed, its an impossiblility.

Kenny is dealing with a different animal than those teams. The "right thing to do" would be to use that 15-18 million, to get a guy like aaron rowand, a shortstop and a reliever. By spreading salary around like that, the team doesn't get hand-cuffed by a bad contract, and the possiblity that all 3 contracts turn out to be bad would be slim. And if they were, thats Kenny's fault. That in essence is "fiscal responsibility." Assessing the risk and making a decision based on it. You may fail, but that failure will not set the franchise back for years. However, the upside may not be as great, but Kenny can't afford to do it any other way.

We look at the Cub's and what they spent. Hendry actually spent more money than Minaya when he got his "blank check" a few years ago. The Cubs may have alot of money, but they don't have a bottomless pit like others. If two out of four of those contracts become "bad" that may set them back 2-3 years, if all of them become "bad" thats another 5-6 years. I can almost promise you that.

The white sox will spend money on the bullpen, and they may overpay, but those 2 contracts aren't the overall scheme of their spending strategy. By not hand cuffing themselves with a 18 million dollar contract to Buerhle, they have the flexibility to overpay for a glaring need such as the bullpen.

He has admitted that he has pitchers throw at batters.

im not getting link between throwing at batters and headhunting.

It's not a link, it's a synonym.

Throwing at somebody and headhunting are completely different. And if you are suggesting that Ozzie Guillen is the only manager in the MLB that tells his pitchers to hit an opposing batter in certain circumstances, you'd be sorely mistaken.

I don't see how the argument "everyone's doing it, so it must be ok" matters. More than one player has intentionally hit a QB in football, so that means it's ok? Having your pitchers intentionally throw a 90+ mph fastball at a batter is pretty serious. Ask any batter who's been thrown at, hit, or beaned in the head (people have died from this).

Ozzie is a piece of shit human being who has no business being in MLB. Baseball has thrown out management before for less, but he gets rewarded with a new contract?

You still have failed to tell me how throwing at a batter and headhunting are the same. Ozzie has never headhunted any hitter. I played baseball and was a hitter up intil college, If you don't know that throwing a batter in certain circumstances is not only part of the game, but a very important part of the game, then you don't have a clue about baseball, and therefore your opinion on ozzie guillen is not even worth the space you've taken up on this thread. Maybe i should explain to you what a "run and hit" is?