Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:47 pm Posts: 13660 Location: Long Island Gender: Male
I just finished watching this B-movie about the great poker player Stu Ungar. "Spider" from Goodfellas stars but it's basically a sub-par movie. But anyway, Ungar is considered one of the best poker players ever and probably the best gin player ever. His story is really intriguing and sad. There is a book coming out about him next year which i'm excited to read. Here's a little snippet about Stu if you're interested. The guy was just a phenomenal card player and anybody who is interested in poker should read about him.
When anyone talks about the greatest poker players of all time, Stu Ungar's name will surface immediately. If it doesn't, it should. His accomplishments in poker are second to none. He is considered by many (and put me on that list) to be the greatest No Limit Hold'em player of all time.
But don't just take my word for it, check the record books. Ungar is a three-time World Champion (with five WSOP bracelets). He won ten major No Limit Hold'em championship events (in which the buy-ins were $5,000 or higher). The next two guys in line, T.J. Cloutier (all-time leading money winner at the WSOP) and Johnny Chan (two-time World Champion), have won half that many. Amazingly, Ungar only played in about 30 of these championship events in his life!
To further understand his greatness, think about this. For years, the second largest poker tournament in the world was Amarillo Slim's Super Bowl of Poker. At that time, every great poker player attended Slim's tournaments. Like the WSOP, the main event at the Super Bowl of Poker was a $10,000 buy-in No Limit Hold'em championship. Only one man in history captured titles at both the WSOP and the Super Bowl of Poker, and that man was Stu Ungar. And he won them three times each!
I first met Ungar in 1978. He was a 22 year-old (who looked 14) streetwise, fast-talking whiz kid out of New York. He ventured to Las Vegas to play high stakes gin rummy against all comers (and he played anyone for any amount). He defeated them like Secretariat handled the Kentucky Derby.
As great as Ungar was in No Limit Hold'em, he was better at gin rummy. Several months after he captured his third world poker title, Ungar said to me, "Some day, I suppose it's possible for someone to be a better No Limit Hold'em player than me. I doubt it, but it could happen. But, I swear to you, I don't see how anyone could ever play gin better than me."
Ungar turned to poker in Las Vegas when his gin action dried up. He started out playing the biggest games in town. In 1980, with virtually no experience at No Limit Hold'em, Ungar entered the $10,000 buy-in World Championship event at Binion's Horseshoe for the first time. He won it. (The press dubbed him Stu "the Kid" Ungar.) The next year, (the second time he played in it), he successfully defended his title. Think about that. Ungar had entered the World Championship twice and was a two-time World Champion at the age of 25! Fittingly, he captured his third world championship (1997) the last time he played in the event.
Ungar had a genius IQ and a photographic memory. He also had the quickest mind of anyone I've ever met. His talent at all card games was truly incredible. He was barred from playing blackjack nearly everywhere. In No Limit Hold'em, he was relentless. Describing how Ungar played No Limit poker is like talking about someone who is a fearless warrior with a combination of the artistry of Mozart, the moves of Michael Jordan, and the focus of Tiger Woods.
Ungar never had a job in his life. He was always a gambler - and I mean an ultra high-stakes gambler at everything - poker, gin, sports, horses, golf - you name it. He never had respect for money. Money was simply a tool to gamble with (the more he had, the more he bet).
For most of his life, money came easy to him. It also disappeared quickly. Ungar was a high roller and a big spender. (He was also a big tipper whether he had money or not). He went from being broke to a millionaire (and broke again) at least four times. Gambling was his life. Ungar craved action. He always had to be in action. He was hyper and couldn't sit still. If you went out to eat, he couldn't sit through a meal. He would always pay for it, but he couldn't sit through it. He had to get back to the action.
Sadly, all is not cheerful and bright when talking about Stu Ungar. He was notorious for dealer abuse. (In the days Ungar started playing, when Johnny Moss ran the high stakes poker, dealer abuse was the norm. Ungar said, "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser.") Many top players behaved poorly back in those days. Poker has changed for the better with regards to dealer abuse, but we could still improve. It's terrible when poker players, especially champions, get out of line.
Ungar's biggest problem was his sickness. For twenty years, he abused himself with drugs. I can't help but think what might have been. What a waste. His life, even with the exciting times and conquests, was a tragedy. Drugs consumed him. I'm astounded when I think of what he achieved in poker, but I shudder to think of what he might have accomplished. Ungar died in 1998 at the age of 42.
Some can't see the "greatness" of Ungar. To them, he was a gambling degenerate and a drug addict who died broke. They confuse his lifestyle, bad habits, and sickness with his ability and extraordinary talent. Don't make that mistake. When it came to "playing the game", Stu Ungar was in a league of his own. He certainly deserves his place in history as one of the "Poker Greats".
Here's some exciting news! Nolan Dalla is authoring "Behind the Shades", a gripping true story about the life of Stu Ungar. This book is riveting and will mesmerize you! (It is due out by summer. I believe it can make the best-sellers list as this story could reach far beyond the poker world. I also wouldn't be surprised if it became an Academy Award winning movie. Take it from me, "Behind the Shades" is a sensational, powerful book.)
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:47 pm Posts: 13660 Location: Long Island Gender: Male
i missed that sportscenter special. That sucks! maybe espn archives has it. Anyway, there are some more great stories about Stu here: http://www.gocee.com/poker/stu_ungar.htm
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:57 pm Posts: 941 Location: Buffalo
the international rock papper scissors championship, Battleship, Sorry, and Spider Solitaire wrote:
Poker on national TV is a great idea!
Just bustin' your balls
_________________ So we finish the 18th...And I say, 'Hey, Lama, how about a little something ,you know, for the effort.' And he says...when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.'
Rick Reilly wrote an article a little while back about how poker becoming big because it's on TV isn't a good thing... it made a really good point about how getting pre-teens into gambling and chance games isn't a good idea and how just playing card games isn't for everybody...
I have a lot of respect for people who have that much skill... how these guys can be that much better than everybody else when it's a game based off luck is beyond me...
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:47 pm Posts: 13660 Location: Long Island Gender: Male
This truly shows his greatness.
Stu Unger would bet anyone $10,000 to place 6 decks of cards in a shoe. The bet was that he would correctly identify the final 104 cards (or 2 decks) in the shoe. No one would take the bet. Finally in January 1977, Bob Stupak, former owner of Stupak's Vegas World and Stratosphere Tower, offered Stu $100,000 to identify the final 3 decks in a 6 deck shoe. Without hesitation, Stu counted the final 3 decks (156 cards) and won the $ 100,000 wager. It was the beginning of a life-long friendship.
Ungar, who was born in New York City and raised on the city's Lower East Side, became a professional gambler at age 14, a year after his father, who was a bookmaker and bar operator, had died.
Stu was an incredible gin rummy player. At age 10 in '63, he won his first gin rummy tournament in a Catskill Mountain Resort while vacationing with his parents. At age 14, he was regularly playing and beating the best players in New York. At 15 he dropped out of school when a well known bookie staked Stu to the $500 buy-in at a big gin rummy tournament. Stu won the $10,000 first prize without ever loosing a hand, a record still held in the card rooms of New York City. A week later, after giving his parents $1,000, he lost the rest on horses at the Aqueduct racetrack. It was a sign of things to come.
Ungar moved to Miami where the juiciest Gin games were. He did well but his weakness for sports and track betting drained him of any success. In 1976 Stu reached Las Vegas, broke and just about beaten. Somehow he found the money to enter a $50,000 tournament. On the last two hands he forecast the losing player's cards - correctly. This bravado was another bad career move as it meant other players feared his skills. As a result, he could no longer find any games outside the tournaments.
It wasn't long before he decided to try his luck at blackjack. He'd cleaned up on poker tables from Nevada to New Jersey and the time was right to move on. One night at Caesars Palace he won $83,000 but the manager stopped the play. Stu retaliated by correctly forecasting the last 18 cards left in the single-deck shoe. That was the beginning of the end for single deck blackjack tables. They were removed from Caesars and later from other casinos, and Stu's picture was posted up in the security rooms of dozens of casinos. He was banned for life.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:13 pm Posts: 2948 Location: Caucusland
Quote:
It wasn't long before he decided to try his luck at blackjack. He'd cleaned up on poker tables from Nevada to New Jersey and the time was right to move on. One night at Caesars Palace he won $83,000 but the manager stopped the play. Stu retaliated by correctly forecasting the last 18 cards left in the single-deck shoe. That was the beginning of the end for single deck blackjack tables. They were removed from Caesars and later from other casinos, and Stu's picture was posted up in the security rooms of dozens of casinos. He was banned for life.
Does this mean he guessed the order of the cards? Even if he knew the cards that were left by sheer memory, it's still a longshot to guess the correct order.
_________________
Bob Knight wrote:
When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down so my critics can kiss my ass.
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:14 am Posts: 8662 Location: IL
Merrill Stubing wrote:
Quote:
It wasn't long before he decided to try his luck at blackjack. He'd cleaned up on poker tables from Nevada to New Jersey and the time was right to move on. One night at Caesars Palace he won $83,000 but the manager stopped the play. Stu retaliated by correctly forecasting the last 18 cards left in the single-deck shoe. That was the beginning of the end for single deck blackjack tables. They were removed from Caesars and later from other casinos, and Stu's picture was posted up in the security rooms of dozens of casinos. He was banned for life.
Does this mean he guessed the order of the cards? Even if he knew the cards that were left by sheer memory, it's still a longshot to guess the correct order.
no one could guess the correct order...
yeah... saw the sportscenter special on this guy... pretty sad
cards being advertised to teens and college kids isnt good for the children themselves, but it's great for poker players like me who make decent money off these chumps online... the industry is booming and it definitely makes it easier for solid card players like myself to make money doing what i love to do, as opposed to only playing great players and banking on good cards to win... im all for legalizing all forms of gambling, but i feel the same way with drugs and just about anything else too... to each his own... though it seems ungar had a bit too much of both
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:47 pm Posts: 13660 Location: Long Island Gender: Male
I knew I was gonna have a dream about Stu and i did. Now i feel woprse for what happened to him. Seeing him dismantle all 312 guys and yet be in such bad shape is such a travesty
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