i will start this post with the realization that there are a shitload of sox fans on this board, and expect to be flamed, but if there are any cleveland fans here then you feel my pain. i mean come on already, this guy is no closer. a whole team worked so hard to put up a lead just to have it flushed by a guy who did not have the balls to tell the coaching staff know he was not feeling well (his excuse). wedge should have known better. any thoughts?

Borowski's on the DL now and his closing days for this team are likely over. That's what Wedge does, sticks with his guys...even to a fault sometimes. Now Betancourt will likely take over (not sure how I feel about that) with Lewis and Masa also possibilities.

The way I look at it, the Indians blew one last night but the Cavs stole one in Philly so it's all even...and I'd rather have the Cavs victory at that point.

cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10780886

well..............good for the tribe. good luck and a great game red sox fans.

ahhhh, you beat me to it man.

i agree with you on the cavs, at least we are only 2 weeks into baseball season. the nba playoffs are happening now

since i moved to NC i very rarely get to catch tribe games anymore, unfortunately (other than if they play the braves or if they play someone on the weekends on fox)

Joe Borowski - High Saves, High ERA. Murder for your pool.

cleveland has some problems.

The best thing to happen to the Indians this year has been the Tigers.

The battle for last place tonight.

I'll be there to watch some no-name minor leaguer shut down the Indians offense.

the cleveland curse...

damn. cleveland needs a decent pitcher

I think that this should be the Cleveland Indians thread.

Anyway, a couple of comments:

1) I can't believe the fans booed Sabathia. Talk about fickle. It's probably not a good idea to boo the team's best pitcher in his contract year in his 3rd start.

2) So this is the Tigers/Indians series, and there's only about 17,000 people at the Jake (or whatever they renamed the park). What the fuck? What does it take for people to show up at games in Cleveland? 1 game away from the WS last year, and playing one of the favorites to challenge for the division this year, and the place is empty.

1. Not re-signing with the team has something to do with the booing. And he's looked like complete shit all year. But I still don't agree with booing him like that. That was the worst I've ever seen an athlete booed in this town and I watched a lot of Larry Hughes at The Q last year.

2. Everyone was at the Cavs game tonight. Saw more Cavalier gear downtown tonight than Indians stuff. Ticket sales are way up this year, but they never draw well in April. A lot of fans come from out of town which isn't as likely to happen while school is in.

I just hate it when fans boo, particularly star players. Unless a player isn't giving 100% and just stops trying, I can't see how booing is supposed to help. Cubs' "fans" are notorious for that.



It's really hard to believe that the reason that the Indians only drew 17,000 people for a matchup with their division rivals with Sabathia pitching is because of the Cavs game. I doubt that 100% of the people that went to the Cavs game would have gone to the Indians game (and even if every single one of them had, the Indians still would have been almost at 8,000 under capacity). I bet that 20% wouldn't have gone. Plus, it was the last regular-season game of the year, and it was probably the most meaningless game since the pre-season. That shouldn't explain the low turnout for the baseball game.

As for it being April, other cold-weather teams that either made the playoffs last year or contended draw way more people than what the Indians drew last night. Hell, the Tigers drew 32,000 (almost double of the Indians) against the crap Twins both nights before last night, and the weather was worse . . . and it was in downtown Detroit . . . and the Pistons were home and the Red Wings had a playoff game.

The weather and kids being in school shouldn't explain that many empty seats. You could shoot a cannon through that place last night.

About the booing, the whole team should have heard it last night and not just C.C. None of them outside of Victor look like they care much right now.

The Cavs game had been sold out for months. Last game of the year against the Pistons...no one would have known months, let alone weeks ago how meaningless that game would have been. If I had tickets to both I likely would have chosen the Cavs game.

It's not the weather (last night was nice), this team just doesn't draw well this time of year on weeknights. They draw too many people from out of town (meaning Columbus, Lorain, Mansfield, Sandusky, Youngstown) that aren't going to show up in the middle of the week in April. That's just how it is. The Cleveland sports fans that live in the Cleveland area were mostly at the Cavs game last night. If attendance is this bad into June then I'll be surprised...although not entirely if they keep playing like this.

I don't think it's fair to compare Cleveland to Detroit when one has a population that greatly surpasses the other.

But nobody lives in Detroit. Detroit's under a million people. And those that do live there, don't go to the games. And everyone that does go to the games travels to the games (and for long distances). Moreover, it's not an easy (or necessarily scenic) trip. So actually I think it's unfair to Detroit to compare Cleveland and Detroit in terms of fan turnout.

Detroit metro: 4,467,532

Cleveland metro: 2,096,471

http://www.census.gov/population/www/es ... nnual.html

You're telling me an extra two million people to draw from doesn't make a difference?

You're giving me metropolitan statistics, which consists of Detroit's suburbs. The city has under one million people, and it has for awhile. ttp://detroit.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

Detroit has a ton of suburbs -- hell, Ann Arbor is considered a suburb of Detroit. My point is, people have to travel to the Tigers games. And if they're traveling to Tigers games during the week in April and mediocre teams, there's no reason why poeple who actually live in Cleveland (and let's not make any mistake, people do live in Cleveland and those people do go to games, as opposed to Detroit) can't go to Indians games.

I'd say metropolitan areas are an accurate reflection of a team's local fan base. I like this report as it doesn't lump entire regions into one metro area. (Akron isn't included in Cleveland, Ann Arbor isn't included in Detroit).

Residents of Cleveland proper are more likely to attend a Cavs game than an Indians game. The Tribe draw more from the suburbs.

Another thing I've noticed lately is the large number of transplants living in Cleveland. A lot of employees at the Clinic and the other local hospitals are from out of state and the least likely to attend a Cleveland sporting event.

Could attendance be better? Of course. I'm not trying to make excuses (okay, maybe a little), but I'm stating a fact that this team does not draw well in April and there are a number of demographical reasons why.

As for Detroit, their situation reminds me a lot of the mid-90s Indians. Bad for so long that once the team starts winning again they become the hot ticket and there's a lot of excitement around the team. There is a good level of excitement surrounding the Indians, but too many people around here (foolishly) expect this team to be as it was a decade ago which will never happen again.

Detroit actually used Cleveland as a model when it floated the ideas of building stadia downtown. They thought that, by doing so, they could attract more people to downtown Detroit in hopes that they would eventually live there. But they forgot that it takes a hell of a lot more than stadia to convince people to return do downtown.

Interestingly, in the mid-90's, Indians fans were actually travelling to Detroit and outnumbering Tigers fans. Now the team struggles to draw those same fans at home games.

I'm not criticizing the city, or suggesting that it has a terrible fan base. I was just struck at how incredibly empty the ballpark was last night with Sabathia pitching against the Tigers. On top of it, there were a lot of Tigers fans there.