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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:10 pm 
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EllisEamos wrote:
thodoks wrote:
Yeah, in all honesty I'm probably too hard on the guy.

shtick post.

Sometimes I get carried away. True story.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:13 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
EllisEamos wrote:
thodoks wrote:
Yeah, in all honesty I'm probably too hard on the guy.

shtick post.

Sometimes I get carried away. True story.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:49 pm 
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Why so much conversation about Jay Cutler? What's the big deal? He's just another guy - that's not a dig, just the facts.

He's the 16th ranked passer in the league....never played a playoff game.

Should I start a Jason Campbell thread now?

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:03 pm 
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Coach wrote:
Why so much conversation about Jay Cutler? What's the big deal? He's just another guy - that's not a dig, just the facts.

He's the 16th ranked passer in the league....never played a playoff game.

Should I start a Jason Campbell thread now?

no need, in campbell's case pjnguy isn't trying to blindly prove that a team made a good decision by trading so much for a QB and a starting WR. all the while saying the QB they got in said trade has nothing to work w/ so his production should be considered even better.

with all due respect pjnguy, if the trade was such a great move you wouldn't have to work so hard to convince people.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:05 pm 
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EllisEamos wrote:
Coach wrote:
Why so much conversation about Jay Cutler? What's the big deal? He's just another guy - that's not a dig, just the facts.

He's the 16th ranked passer in the league....never played a playoff game.

Should I start a Jason Campbell thread now?

no need, in campbell's case pjnguy isn't trying to blindly prove that a team made a good decision by trading so much for a QB and a starting WR. all the while saying the QB they got in said trade has nothing to work w/ so his production should be considered even better.

with all due respect pjnguy, if the trade was such a great move you wouldn't have to work so hard to convince people.


that's why this thread is so long!

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Coach wrote:
EllisEamos wrote:
Coach wrote:
Why so much conversation about Jay Cutler? What's the big deal? He's just another guy - that's not a dig, just the facts.

He's the 16th ranked passer in the league....never played a playoff game.

Should I start a Jason Campbell thread now?

no need, in campbell's case pjnguy isn't trying to blindly prove that a team made a good decision by trading so much for a QB and a starting WR. all the while saying the QB they got in said trade has nothing to work w/ so his production should be considered even better.

with all due respect pjnguy, if the trade was such a great move you wouldn't have to work so hard to convince people.


that's why this thread is so long!

well that and the fact that cutler very naturally rubs people the wrong way and, until he proves otherwise, will be considered a whiny bitch/prima donna for demanding himself out of denver just b/c he didn't like what he'd heard of the teams new coach.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:09 am 
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Coach wrote:
Why so much conversation about Jay Cutler? What's the big deal? He's just another guy - that's not a dig, just the facts.

He's the 16th ranked passer in the league....never played a playoff game.

Should I start a Jason Campbell thread now?


I didn't start the thread. All of this started with a 'discussion' (yes, an actual discussion not "he's a prick and he looks like a douchebag" kinda discussion) about the initial trade and whether he was worth it. I know shocking, a real discussion on Jay Cutler, i mean, he looks like such a douchebag and did you see how he left Denver? Boy i really hate him. :arrow:

EllisEamos wrote:
with all due respect pjnguy, if the trade was such a great move you wouldn't have to work so hard to convince people.


I posted an update to the trade. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know if it was a great trade yet, nobody does. I don't have a problem with people that actually talk about substantive things regarding the trade like, i don't know, football. It's pretty clear that you have a problem with the guy outside of his play on the field since that's all you talk about. That's your personal problem, not mine. And quite frankly, has nothing to do with anything is this thread and nothing to do with anything in general. No one cares if you don't like him as a person. That's why your opinion means nothing to me. Now you have either watched his games this year, or not. If not, don't respond. It's okay, it's not the end of the world. I'm sure you can find things to talk about with your own team.

EllisEamos wrote:
well that and the fact that cutler very naturally rubs people the wrong way and, until he proves otherwise, will be considered a whiny bitch/prima donna for demanding himself out of denver just b/c he didn't like what he'd heard of the teams new coach.


He should be applauded for getting the hell out of a place run by Josh McDaniels. Anybody in his situation with a brain would have done the same, but because its football, its different? Get over it, everyone else has. Is John Elway a whiny bitch/prima donna too? Eli Manning? Does anybody in the world care besides you? Throw the football, make plays, and win, the rest is garbage old people like to talk about because they don't a goddamn thing about the game. If you want to talk about anything else, make you're own thread that's about prima donna's and unicorns for all i care. I'm more interested in pocket presence, footwork, and managing a game instead mannerisms and how I 'feel' about the person.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:17 am 
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I bet you Josh McDaniels wins a Super Bowl as an NFL head coach before Cutler does as a player or coach.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:19 am 
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Coach wrote:
I bet you Josh McDaniels wins a Super Bowl as an NFL head coach before Cutler does as a player or coach.

Im no Jay Cutler fan, but..
this is a ballsy bet
Jay Cutler is currently the QB in the playoffs on a team with a bye.
Josh McDaniels is currently unemployed, with no immediate prospects for a coordinator job, much less a head coach on a contending team.


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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:26 am 
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Skitch Patterson wrote:
Coach wrote:
I bet you Josh McDaniels wins a Super Bowl as an NFL head coach before Cutler does as a player or coach.

Im no Jay Cutler fan, but..
this is a ballsy bet
Jay Cutler is currently the QB in the playoffs on a team with a bye.
Josh McDaniels is currently unemployed, with no immediate prospects for a coordinator job, much less a head coach on a contending team.

Thanks for the recap. Good job. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:43 am 
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Coach wrote:
I bet you Josh McDaniels wins a Super Bowl as an NFL head coach before Cutler does as a player or coach.


i really don't care, but thanks for playing.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:00 am 
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Coach wrote:
I bet you Josh McDaniels wins a Super Bowl as an NFL head coach before Cutler does as a player or coach.


Considering the Bears are going to the Super Bowl this year, I'd take that bet in a second.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:01 am 
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Too Big a Man Too Say wrote:
Coach wrote:
I bet you Josh McDaniels wins a Super Bowl as an NFL head coach before Cutler does as a player or coach.


Considering the Bears are going to the Super Bowl this year, I'd take that bet in a second.


There have been some wrong predictions - dead wrong predictions - made about the Bears on this board. This is another one.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:43 am 
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Skitch Patterson wrote:
Josh McDaniels is currently unemployed, with no immediate prospects for a coordinator job, much less a head coach on a contending team.

UPDATE:

Josh McDaniels would rather be an assistant coach in Minnesota than a head coach in San Francisco.

ESPN’s Ed Werder reports that McDaniels is scheduled to meet Friday with Vikings coach Leslie Frazier about an undefined assistant coaching job. (Very likely the offensive coordinator position.) McD passed up a chance to interview for the 49ers head coaching job earlier Thursday.

Don’t forget the Vikings still have an offensive coordinator: Brett Favre’s BFF Darrell Bevell. While nothing has been made official about Bevell’s status, this news strongly indicates the Vikings are looking to go in a new direction. The Childress-Favre-Bevell offense appears to be on the way out.

McDaniels seems to have learned from Eric Mangini’s mistake in Cleveland. Jumping into another hazardous head coaching job right after getting fired isn’t necessarily the best way to learn your craft, achieve coaching longevity, and maximize a potential second chance.

It’s very rare to get three chances, so you better make the second one count.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:29 am 
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ok, since i can only talk about football, i'm just going to look at Jay's stats at nfl.com and see what stands out to me.

he's thrown the ball less this season than any other year since his rookie year (when he had 5 starts), granted he missed one game this year, but he would have needed 35 attempts just to match his previous low. Said 35 attempts would have been slightly more than his per game average for the season, leading me to believe even w/ that 16th start he still would have less attempts this year than ever before. Also of note, Todd Collins was 6/16 w/ 4 picks in place of Cutler, while Matt Forte carried the Bears over the Panthers, which also suggests 35 attempts likely wouldn't have been reached, let alone surpassed. despite throwing less, Jay has a lower completion rate than any other year (not including his 5 start rookie year) and has been sacked more than any other year (17 times more than last year, his previous high).

<<my only opinion in there is represented in which stats stood out to me, and my brief hypothesis about the game he missed.>>

now, b/c who could discuss football and not borrow from the CHFF, here's how the bears look through the site's Quality Stats.

3-3 against winning teams (17.0 points for/ 23.3 points against)
32nd in Offensive Hogs (they're 23rd in yards/carry, 32nd in negative pass plays, and 27th on 3rd downs)
5th in Scorability (averaging 13.87 yards/point)
25th in yards/pass attempt (5.79)
11th in passer rating differential (+5.1, 79.49 for vs. 74.39 against)

here's a write-up from the site about team's who have records better than their stats would predict:

Quote:
The Bears ought to be home at night asleep in front of the TV, but instead they are posing as one of the best teams in the NFC. A 6-4 record in one score games is their attempt to hide the unsightly bald patches that make it unlikely for them to go all the way at the end of the night.

The Bears have a lot of things going for them, but they are dead last in the Offensive Hog index and their offense is 22nd in turnovers.

The next time you see this poser cruising the town, remind him that Calvin Johnson got robbed and that he should go home to his wife.


so based on these numbers and actual football stuff, i'd say Jay and his offense suck and are carried by their D. :wave:

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:39 am 
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I would agree. The Bears have had 5 different offensive lines this year and the smallest wide receiver core in the NFL. One of their greatest assets coming into the season was Greg Olsen. While a mismatch on almost every play, unfortunately for him, the TE in the Mike Martz system is a block-first job. Something Olsen has yet to grasp. Because of it, there has been 10 games where he has been held under 4 catches, and 7 where he's had 1 or fewer. Leaving Cutler to throw to small targets like Johnny Knox, Earl Bennett, and Devin Hester, who isn't even a true WR.

To mitigate the constant hits to Cutler and allow a bad offensive line to move down field instead of backwords, the Bears have run the ball more times than anybody since their bye week in week 8. Coupled with that, they have done away with the 7 step drops to combat the pass run. In essence, Cutler has become a game manager. While doing that, he has managed to go 7-2 since the bye. This while the defense was getting worse and worse.

What was interesting to see was the Jets game. Due to a shitty turf, both teams had trouble garnering any pass rush. This allowed the Bears' small receivers to use their speed (their only asset as WR's) to break deep into the secondary and get separation (A staple in the Martz system, this is why his quarterbacks are sacked more times than any other play caller). Something that wasn't seen all year, and something that can resurface in the playoffs. An Ace in Martz's pocket if you will.

The offense has gone through many changes this season, not only on the field, but also in players trying to understand and implement a complicated Mike Martz scheme that is predicated on protecting the quarterback. Something that this team was never able to do to begin with, which was why the hiring was puzzling and ridiculed from the onset . They adapted on the fly and the only constant we've seen game in and game out was Cutler, despite being put on the ground 50+ times.

There was a reason why this team wasn't picked to make the playoffs, and there's a reason why this team will continue to be picked against. The success they've had this year has been remarkable.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:54 am 
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pnjguy wrote:
I would agree.

with what?

that their offense is awful and they've been carried by their d? funny how everything that came after your admitted agreement is an effort to tell me how great cutler is...

also, when "updating the trade" why did you make sure to point out the stats (or lack there of) of the broncos but not the bears? or the fact that they've taken the ball out of cutler's hands while putting it in orton's more often? why not mention the fact that both tebow & orton have better percentages than cutler when "starting"?

these are all rhetorical, you don't need to respond.

one last thing:

don't tell me about o-line injuries and short receivers or guys learning to become receivers after playing a different position in college. the patriots have had a revolving door at the guard positions, traded away their tallest receiver and acquired a much shorter one, and have been attempting to make a college qb into a receiver for 2 years now. and their offense is the most efficient and highest rated by CHFF. very different system to be sure, but i think the qb has a lot to do w/ their success too... maybe, what do i know.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:31 pm 
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EllisEamos wrote:
with what?

that their offense is awful and they've been carried by their d? funny how everything that came after your admitted agreement is an effort to tell me how great cutler is...

also, when "updating the trade" why did you make sure to point out the stats (or lack there of) of the broncos but not the bears? or the fact that they've taken the ball out of cutler's hands while putting it in orton's more often? why not mention the fact that both tebow & orton have better percentages than cutler when "starting"?

these are all rhetorical, you don't need to respond.

one last thing:

don't tell me about o-line injuries and short receivers or guys learning to become receivers after playing a different position in college. the patriots have had a revolving door at the guard positions, traded away their tallest receiver and acquired a much shorter one, and have been attempting to make a college qb into a receiver for 2 years now. and their offense is the most efficient and highest rated by CHFF. very different system to be sure, but i think the qb has a lot to do w/ their success too... maybe, what do i know.


I never ever said Cutler was great.

And i chose not to include stats for Cutler, Knox, AND Orton because they are known quantities. Since the very beginning, the draft picks where the ones to balance the deal. And what 'percentages' are you talking about? And what does Tebow's 2 starts have anything to do with anything when comparing quarterbacks?

Second of all, comparing anything that the Patrtiots do to the Bears is pointless and just goes to show that you have no argument. The Bears have 5 win talent on their team while the Patriots have been Super Bowl contenders ever years since forever and one of the best coaches of all time. They're a dynasty. The Bears started 2 guys on their offensive line this year that are out of football. They were so bad no other team wanted them. Their right tackle was moved to left guard, their left guard was moved to right guard, their other right tackle was moved to left tackle, they have a 7th round pick as their right tackle now. They are BY FAR the worst in football, and its not even close. The Patriot backups would be starting for the bears on the offensive line, not to mention they're pretty much better at every position on offense except maybe running back. The Bears would kill for a guy like Deon Branch, someone who is not even their best reciever, its sad. But as we've seen in the past, receivers don't really mean a whole lot to Brady anyway but the Bears need a big target that can come off a jab to mitigate the constant pass rush. Not to mention, the Patriots have had the same scheme since forever, plugging someone in isn't as nearly hard as one implementing a total new way of playing offense. And am i comparing Cutler to the great Tom Brady or are you just making up stuff to prove your argument?

Its pretty clear you have no idea whats going with the Bears and that's okay, i wouldn't expect you to. Simply looking up stats is not going to tell you the whole story.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:44 pm 
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In the interest of honesty, this thread is pretty much all my fault.

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 Post subject: Re: The Jay Cutler Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:57 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
In the interest of honesty, this thread is pretty much all my fault.

I came in here to post this exact thought.

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