Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:34 am Posts: 12700 Location: ...a town in north Ontario...
Electromatic wrote:
No changes except for perhaps shortstop will be made to the starting 8
Is it fair to say that the Escobar trade cost the Braves a playoff spot this year? Or are Braves fans sticking with the "he wouldn't have been any good here and we're still happy to see him go no matter what happens" thing.
_________________ I think we relinquished enough... and it's still dark enough... and it goes on and on and on...
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm Posts: 9282 Location: Atlanta Gender: Male
PhilPritchard wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
No changes except for perhaps shortstop will be made to the starting 8
Is it fair to say that the Escobar trade cost the Braves a playoff spot this year? Or are Braves fans sticking with the "he wouldn't have been any good here and we're still happy to see him go no matter what happens" thing.
Um, no I don't think so, unfortunately we've got bigger problems and even though Gonzalez was awful outside of the occasional HR at the plate he played his ass off in the field. Personally I think Escobar was pretty good here outside of the first half of that season. The trade didn't help the Braves much, but it didn't keep them out. There are big portions of the fan base that were really upset about that trade. They hated it, because any time the Braves get a player with some fire, they trade him. Others (mostly the anti mike vick crowd) just hated him for the frosted tips and histrionics.
It's the outfield that has truely sunk this team probably 10 years running. Bourne was too little too late.
The Braves may have the worst outfield in baseball over the last 5 years.
The Front Office though here, is the equivalent of pablum. They love them some boring.
The reason I say shortstop, is because I'm not sure Gonzalez will come back for what they want to pay him. Not because they don't love him.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:34 am Posts: 12700 Location: ...a town in north Ontario...
Electromatic wrote:
PhilPritchard wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
No changes except for perhaps shortstop will be made to the starting 8
Is it fair to say that the Escobar trade cost the Braves a playoff spot this year? Or are Braves fans sticking with the "he wouldn't have been any good here and we're still happy to see him go no matter what happens" thing.
Um, no I don't think so, unfortunately we've got bigger problems and even though Gonzalez was awful outside of the occasional HR at the plate he played his ass off in the field. Personally I think Escobar was pretty good here outside of the first half of that season. The trade didn't help the Braves much, but it didn't keep them out. There are big portions of the fan base that were really upset about that trade. They hated it, because any time the Braves get a player with some fire, they trade him. Others (mostly the anti mike vick crowd) just hated him for the frosted tips and histrionics.
It's the outfield that has truely sunk this team probably 10 years running. Bourne was too little too late.
The Braves may have the worst outfield in baseball over the last 5 years.
The Front Office though here, is the equivalent of pablum. They love them some boring.
The reason I say shortstop, is because I'm not sure Gonzalez will come back for what they want to pay him. Not because they don't love him.
Fair enough. I just figured the way Escobar played this year had to be enough to turn one game, somewhere along the line, into a win that would have pushed them into a 1-game playoff with St. Louis. (And that's just based on guessing... if you want to look at WAR, Escobar put up 4.3 WAR this year even though he missed 30 games... Gonzalez put up 1.1 WAR. I'm still undecided as to the accuracy of WAR, but 3 wins or so would have put them straight into the playoffs.)
_________________ I think we relinquished enough... and it's still dark enough... and it goes on and on and on...
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm Posts: 9282 Location: Atlanta Gender: Male
PhilPritchard wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
PhilPritchard wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
No changes except for perhaps shortstop will be made to the starting 8
Is it fair to say that the Escobar trade cost the Braves a playoff spot this year? Or are Braves fans sticking with the "he wouldn't have been any good here and we're still happy to see him go no matter what happens" thing.
Um, no I don't think so, unfortunately we've got bigger problems and even though Gonzalez was awful outside of the occasional HR at the plate he played his ass off in the field. Personally I think Escobar was pretty good here outside of the first half of that season. The trade didn't help the Braves much, but it didn't keep them out. There are big portions of the fan base that were really upset about that trade. They hated it, because any time the Braves get a player with some fire, they trade him. Others (mostly the anti mike vick crowd) just hated him for the frosted tips and histrionics.
It's the outfield that has truely sunk this team probably 10 years running. Bourne was too little too late.
The Braves may have the worst outfield in baseball over the last 5 years.
The Front Office though here, is the equivalent of pablum. They love them some boring.
The reason I say shortstop, is because I'm not sure Gonzalez will come back for what they want to pay him. Not because they don't love him.
Fair enough. I just figured the way Escobar played this year had to be enough to turn one game, somewhere along the line, into a win that would have pushed them into a 1-game playoff with St. Louis. (And that's just based on guessing... if you want to look at WAR, Escobar put up 4.3 WAR this year even though he missed 30 games... Gonzalez put up 1.1 WAR. I'm still undecided as to the accuracy of WAR, but 3 wins or so would have put them straight into the playoffs.)
you're right, He probably would have put them over the top. It's just, when the RF puts up .227 with only 40 something RBI's it's hard for me to look at the shortstop.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:34 am Posts: 12700 Location: ...a town in north Ontario...
Electromatic wrote:
you're right, He probably would have put them over the top. It's just, when the RF puts up .227 with only 40 something RBI's it's hard for me to look at the shortstop.
Good point... I think it's about time they give up on Heyward and ship him off to the wasteland of supremely talented young players that is Toronto.
_________________ I think we relinquished enough... and it's still dark enough... and it goes on and on and on...
This current slide by the Bravos is one of the worst I've seen. At what point does management realize Fredi G doesn't have what it takes to run a winning ball club?
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:42 pm Posts: 17495 Location: Surfside Beach, SC Gender: Male
4-bagger wrote:
This current slide by the Bravos is one of the worst I've seen. At what point does management realize Fredi G doesn't have what it takes to run a winning ball club?
Ugh. They look horrid against the Nats. And that play by Heyward the other night when he was just standing around in the outfield and gave Harper a double instead of a single...
_________________ I remember thinking, "that's really gay". -- Cameronia
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm Posts: 9282 Location: Atlanta Gender: Male
4-bagger wrote:
This current slide by the Bravos is one of the worst I've seen. At what point does management realize Fredi G doesn't have what it takes to run a winning ball club?
they can't hit without Mac, Chipper and Freeman in the lineup.
It's just a very streaky team in general. They get into collective bad habits, like Boscan popping out foul on a 2-0 count with RISP. WTF are you doing guy, that was ball 4.
Management is very concerned with the budget, which sucks because the TV contract is garbage (inside job) and they just aren't that interesting to the inside the perimeter crowd that lives close enough to go should they desire it.
They are going to win 7 or 8 in a row and then lose 10 or 15. It's how they are built.
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm Posts: 9282 Location: Atlanta Gender: Male
4-bagger wrote:
:wave: Beachy How bad does the Tex trade look about now?
I can't kill that trade. They were going for it. They were trying to win, Tex just didn't hit for half the year and didn't end up worth it. I'm not going to kill them for rolling the dice on that though.
I'm more mad that they paid Kenshin Kawakami. Almost every guy in that trade with Texas wouldn't have played here. We got Ron Mayhay in that trade too who wasn't resigned either.
The really bad moves this team made include shipping out David Justice way early and bringing in insufferable bastard Kenny Lofton....and losing Adam Wainwright.
Tex was supposed to give them the offense they needed to win in the playoffs. He didn't, but the Yankees overpaid him anyway.
The shame of that trade wasn't that some prospects were given up for a prime player. The shame is that Tex didn't produce enough to do what they brought him in to do. Even now he's overpaid for what he is, a decent first baseman with some power. The way he's marketed though you would think he's Pujols.
The mistakes really were in overpaying Derrick Lowe (they had to to get him) and the huge one was Kenshin Kawakami in addition to never doing anything to really address vacancies of power in the outfield. The outfield was abysmal for 5 or more years. Nothing worked outthere until Bourn really.
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:04 pm Posts: 1875 Location: Atlanta, SE of Disorder Gender: Male
It continues to amaze how this team switches from looking playoff caliber to P-U ugly. I really don't fault the Tex trade either. McCann was blocking Saltalamacchia. Management thought Yuni Escobar was the answer at short over Elvis and it looks like they've got a stud in Simmons. Young pitching really shouldn't be a long term issue for the team and I can't complain about Kimbrel as the closer. I'm okay with McCann leaving after '13. He's not going to first (Freeman). He hasn't hit as well since he hurt his oblique last season. This team is very selective who they give big money contracts too and I can't see them giving one to a catcher turning 30. Yes, the Braves have some money to be freed up when Chipper and Lowe come off the books after this season. I'd like to see Bourn re-signed but doubt it. I don't know what they will do at third base but my biggest long term concern? They're horrible TV deal. The NL East rent is only going to increase and they just don't have the revenue to keep up. I really don't want this team to turn into the likes of the Pirates, Royals or Padres but it could happen.
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Listening to the Braves on internet radio, it's clear that management has yet to have an intervention with Sutton. Have another sip of your "water bottle" Don...
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