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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:20 pm 
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Coach wrote:
Because journalists, baseball writers, announcers, etc., failed to report the ongoing PED abuse in baseball during the 90s, 2000s, I hope that none of them get into the HOF based on their collective failure to "break" this news.

It's not that cut and dry. I forget where I read this but a few years back there was a story about this one sports writer who was in the Cardinals clubhouse during the McGuire/Sosa race and saw PEDs sitting on the top shelf of B-Mac's locker. He wrote the name of the drug down and I'm not sure if he published it or just started asking questions about it but the dude was banned from the clubhouse or some shit. I'm not saying the silence was right, but it sounded like it wasn't as simple as sports writers simply deciding for no good reason to not report.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:58 pm 
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I remember when that happened, it was the first time I'd ever heard of Androsteindione, or however the fuck that is spelled. It was a story for like 2 days, I dont think the writer caught hell for reporting it though. Personally I think it's ridiculous that the writers have the vote for the hall of fame, the vote should be conducted by Baseball Hall Of Famers.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:59 pm 
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I don't think leaving the vote to hall of famers will make it any better/more objective.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:09 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
Morris ... is among the best pitchers of his era.

What about Rick Reuschel?

http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... schel.html



I like Joe, because otherwise I'd have no idea who Rick Reuschel was. Morris (and Kent Hrbeck and Kirby Puckett) ruined my life as a 12 year old.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:45 pm 
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Torii Hunter for 2/26 is looking like a steal.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:48 pm 
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Like the Napoli signing. Don't like the Victorino signing.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:29 am 
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Yeah I'm not thrilled with the Victorino signing. I dont hate it like I hated giving 10 million to Jonny Gomes, but to me Victorino is like a slightly better version of Coco Crisp. I am fully on board with the Napoli signing, but I do find it a bit odd that they have just dropped 80 million dollars on two players who couldnt hit 260 last year.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:02 am 
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mick7184 wrote:
Yeah I'm not thrilled with the Victorino signing. I dont hate it like I hated giving 10 million to Jonny Gomes, but to me Victorino is like a slightly better version of Coco Crisp. I am fully on board with the Napoli signing, but I do find it a bit odd that they have just dropped 80 million dollars on two players who couldnt hit 260 last year.


They both provide a lot more than just batting average... they both get on base at a really good rate, Napoli hits for a lot of power and Victorino adds a lot of speed. These moves will obviously make them a much better team.

That being said, I agree that it's a bit much for Victorino coming off a pretty average season... and don't the Sox really need pitching right now?

I'm thrilled that the Jays pounced on Cabrera before some of these other outfielders started signing. Even with the questions about steroids, I would take Cabrera at 2/16 over any other outfielder contract we've seen so far.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:58 am 
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PhilPritchard wrote:
mick7184 wrote:
Yeah I'm not thrilled with the Victorino signing. I dont hate it like I hated giving 10 million to Jonny Gomes, but to me Victorino is like a slightly better version of Coco Crisp. I am fully on board with the Napoli signing, but I do find it a bit odd that they have just dropped 80 million dollars on two players who couldnt hit 260 last year.


They both provide a lot more than just batting average... they both get on base at a really good rate, Napoli hits for a lot of power and Victorino adds a lot of speed. These moves will obviously make them a much better team.

That being said, I agree that it's a bit much for Victorino coming off a pretty average season... and don't the Sox really need pitching right now?

I'm thrilled that the Jays pounced on Cabrera before some of these other outfielders started signing. Even with the questions about steroids, I would take Cabrera at 2/16 over any other outfielder contract we've seen so far.



Id rank Hunter 2/26 better ( better career track record) but both signings look brilliant compared to the Gomes/Victorino/Scuturo/Napoli type deals.. a lot of third years being given out.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:36 am 
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If the Sox can somehow swing Ellsbury for a 1/2 starter without gutting their farm system, and then play Victorino in CF and sign Ross, all of a sudden the Gomes signing and Victorino contract look alot better.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:37 am 
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mick7184 wrote:
If the Sox can somehow swing Ellsbury for a 1/2 starter without gutting their farm system, and then play Victorino in CF and sign Ross, all of a sudden the Gomes signing and Victorino contract look alot better.

For sure. I just don't know how good they'll do for Ellsbury right now.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:45 am 
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You'd definetely have to give up more than Ellsbury. I was thinking maybe you give Ellsbury to Philly for Cliff Lee, or Halladay for that matter. Philly is looking for an OF and might be open to moving Lee for Ellsbury, that way you might be able to pull it off without having to give up much more than Ellsbury. I think that Red Sox prospects have been outrageously overvalued not just in Boston but leaguewide over the last 10 years or so, but I dont want to see Boogarts or Bradley gone in a trade this offseason. I would be open to trading any pitching prospect in the organization though.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:02 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
mick7184 wrote:
If the Sox can somehow swing Ellsbury for a 1/2 starter without gutting their farm system, and then play Victorino in CF and sign Ross, all of a sudden the Gomes signing and Victorino contract look alot better.

For sure. I just don't know how good they'll do for Ellsbury right now.


It's definitely a complicated situation for them now. Victorino's value is significantly diminished if he's in right field, but they would be selling low on Ellsbury to trade him after a rough season where he was injured so much. But yeah, even big rebounds from Lester and Buchholz leaves them with a pretty rough looking rotation. What's the latest plan for Bard?

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:04 pm 
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So who is going to pay Michael Bourn now?

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:17 pm 
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Al Davis


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Yunel Escobar, we hardly knew ye!

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:02 pm 
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4/5 wrote:
Yunel Escobar, we hardly knew ye!


I've been a big supporter since the Jays acquired him, but it's probably not a good sign that he agreed to play third and then called later to say he wouldn't move off of short. Of course, he'll probably have a huge season... because that's what happens when players go to Tampa Bay.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:05 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
Coach wrote:
Because journalists, baseball writers, announcers, etc., failed to report the ongoing PED abuse in baseball during the 90s, 2000s, I hope that none of them get into the HOF based on their collective failure to "break" this news.

It's not that cut and dry. I forget where I read this but a few years back there was a story about this one sports writer who was in the Cardinals clubhouse during the McGuire/Sosa race and saw PEDs sitting on the top shelf of B-Mac's locker. He wrote the name of the drug down and I'm not sure if he published it or just started asking questions about it but the dude was banned from the clubhouse or some shit. I'm not saying the silence was right, but it sounded like it wasn't as simple as sports writers simply deciding for no good reason to not report.


Good point and I do remember that. Still, it only would have taken one or two national writers with some balls and decent investigative skills to blow that story wide open.

If a few Boston Globe journalists can take down the Catholic Church (remember, the Globe broke the priest, child sex abuse scandal) then a few national writers could have broken the steroids story in baseball.

I guess this is a long way of saying that good reporting is still relevant and can make a difference. And shame on those writers who looked the other way - I hope they are banned from the HOF.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:04 pm 
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PhilPritchard wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
mick7184 wrote:
If the Sox can somehow swing Ellsbury for a 1/2 starter without gutting their farm system, and then play Victorino in CF and sign Ross, all of a sudden the Gomes signing and Victorino contract look alot better.

For sure. I just don't know how good they'll do for Ellsbury right now.


It's definitely a complicated situation for them now. Victorino's value is significantly diminished if he's in right field, but they would be selling low on Ellsbury to trade him after a rough season where he was injured so much. But yeah, even big rebounds from Lester and Buchholz leaves them with a pretty rough looking rotation. What's the latest plan for Bard?


The plan for Bard is to expect nothing and be pleasantly surprised if he's a serviceable major league reliever. Personally I think Bard is done, at least until he leaves Boston. The whole making Bard a starter thing is the biggest gaffe of Cherington's so far abysmal run as GM.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:49 pm 
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PhilPritchard wrote:
mick7184 wrote:
Yeah I'm not thrilled with the Victorino signing. I dont hate it like I hated giving 10 million to Jonny Gomes, but to me Victorino is like a slightly better version of Coco Crisp. I am fully on board with the Napoli signing, but I do find it a bit odd that they have just dropped 80 million dollars on two players who couldnt hit 260 last year.


They both provide a lot more than just batting average... they both get on base at a really good rate, Napoli hits for a lot of power and Victorino adds a lot of speed. These moves will obviously make them a much better team.

That being said, I agree that it's a bit much for Victorino coming off a pretty average season... and don't the Sox really need pitching right now?

I'm thrilled that the Jays pounced on Cabrera before some of these other outfielders started signing. Even with the questions about steroids, I would take Cabrera at 2/16 over any other outfielder contract we've seen so far.

I wouldn't say Victorino gets on base at a "really good rate."

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