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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:51 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
He was also Grandpa in the Greendale film and stage production.


Sold.


I picked up three live Neil records a few days ago...Weld, Live Rust, and the Unplugged. I had eighteen studio discs, but nothing live, so I went balls out. All I've listened to so far is Weld, and that thing kicks my ass. In fact, I think I'll give it a spin now.


I have Unplugged, and I love it alot, and from what I've heard from the others, you made some great purchases


I downloaded his first solo album and Zuma earlier today, and they both jumped to the top of my CD shopping list. Next time I go to a good record store, I will be picking both up, and maybe some more of his live stuff.


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I didnt read thsi but i just wanted to drop in and say, im a casual fan and i pick up any Neil i see at teh used CD store and After The Goldrush is by far his greatest that ive heard

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McParadigm wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
He was also Grandpa in the Greendale film and stage production.


Sold.


I picked up three live Neil records a few days ago...Weld, Live Rust, and the Unplugged. I had eighteen studio discs, but nothing live, so I went balls out. All I've listened to so far is Weld, and that thing kicks my ass. In fact, I think I'll give it a spin now.


You have to get Year Of The Horse, the live album, not the movie. After Live Rust, which I think is one of the greatest live albums ever released, YOTH is my favorite.

"They all sound the same!"
Neil: "It's all ONE SONG." 8)

I rank the live albums:

Live Rust
Year Of The Horse
Unplugged
Weld/Arc
CSNY - 4 Way Street
Road Rock V 1

Don't let the relative positions fool you, only the last one is really not very good. The rest are all excellent.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:32 am 
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punk david im gonna disagree with your order

live rust
unplugged
arc/weld
4 way street
year of the horse




road rock

year of the horse really is great, but i dunno, it just didnt give me the feeling, i gotta get up and jam to this. but then again, it was the last neil live album i got

unplugged...well stringman...i just get moved by that everytime i hear it. and the pump organ of like a hurricane was insane.

crime in the city does it for me with arc/weld. and cinnamon girl got me into neil and i heard all of his big crazy horse stuff before i heard his acoustic melodies, so naturally thats going to rank higher

4way street to me, is just so powerful. the melodies of csny are pure beauty. and that last medley of cinnamon girl/loner/down by the river blows me away every time.

and about your previous question. do the bluenotes count? but if they dont i think you hit it on the head with ben keith. if it wasnt for him neil wouldnt be where he is with a lot of songs.

have any of you guys heard a lot of neils medley songs where he merges two together? i think thats one of the many areas where i fell in love with neil. the main needs a maid blended into heart of gold blows me away every time. and that one mini concert with bob dylan and parts of the band where they did helpless into knocking on a dragons door....words can never grasp the beauty and perfection of that song.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:35 am 
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Azrael at dawn wrote:
What I love about him is the fact that he can't sing.


ive never heard a more delicate voice of subtelty and beauty than neils voice, dont tell me he cant sing.

and speaking of that. for neils entire career people were saying stuff like that. he couldnt sing, he couldnt play guitar, etc. what did he do? proved them all wrong.

he may not have loads of guitar skill and a lot of his 10 minute jams arent really hard to play, other than their length, but he has an ear for music. just like gretzky and orr had a 6th sense for playing hockey, neil has that extra sense in creating the perfect melody may it be hard rock, country, electronic, or something acoustic.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:35 am 
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punkdavid wrote:
Neil has worked with many great musicians over the years, but who is your favorite Neil collaborator? Not your favorites band, so don't say "Crazy Horse", but favorite individual?

Mine is Ben Keith. He's probably played on more Neil records than just about anyone else. His first record with Neil was Harvest, and then he was everywhere with Neil straight through the doom trilogy. He was a member of The Stray Gators on Harvest and Time Fades Away, the Santa Monica Flyers on TTN and is the only musician on every track of On The Beach besides Neil. He appeared on every one of Neil's albums from Harvest to the current as yet unnamed album in the works in Nashville, except for Landing On Water, Mirrorball, Are You Passionate?, and any albums that were "Neil Young and Crazy Horse". He was also Grandpa in the Greendale film and stage production.

Just check out this C.V.
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=am ... pn39ffo~T4

I agree about that for sure. As far as my favorite collaborator that would be really hard to say. I am however really partial to the musicians, especially drums, on the Freedom, and El Doradoe albums.


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My favorite Live Neil album is Weld. All electric and a great version of Crime In The City. Cortez The Killer is awesome on there. the Video is a true gem if you can find it. the audience is really into the performance.


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Mrmattsitwrame wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Neil has worked with many great musicians over the years, but who is your favorite Neil collaborator? Not your favorites band, so don't say "Crazy Horse", but favorite individual?

Mine is Ben Keith. He's probably played on more Neil records than just about anyone else. His first record with Neil was Harvest, and then he was everywhere with Neil straight through the doom trilogy. He was a member of The Stray Gators on Harvest and Time Fades Away, the Santa Monica Flyers on TTN and is the only musician on every track of On The Beach besides Neil. He appeared on every one of Neil's albums from Harvest to the current as yet unnamed album in the works in Nashville, except for Landing On Water, Mirrorball, Are You Passionate?, and any albums that were "Neil Young and Crazy Horse". He was also Grandpa in the Greendale film and stage production.

Just check out this C.V.
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=am ... pn39ffo~T4

I agree about that for sure. As far as my favorite collaborator that would be really hard to say. I am however really partial to the musicians, especially drums, on the Freedom, and El Doradoe albums.

That would be Chad Cromwell. He played drums on the Bluenotes album, as well as Eldorado and Freedom, and the atrocious CSNY American Dream album.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:20 am 
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Anybody else have Timeframe? I just picked it up. It's a four disc bootleg of unreleased material. I haven't listened to it yet, but I figure it'll be good to tide me over for the 900 years that it'll take to actually get the Archives project done.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:47 am 
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the verb to trust wrote:
Neil Young is incredible. I think he deserves to be held in a respect closer to Bob Dylan than he is by many rock critics. Which isn't to say Bob Dylan isn't deserving of all the credit he gets, just Neil Young should be getting a lot of the same. Anywho, rock critics are stupid so who cares.

I need On the Beach. So many people on this board list this as there favorite and I've never heard it. I feel deprived.

And yes Ragged glory is awesome.


I respect Dylan, but to me Neil is by far the better musician and can even hold his own with Dylan's writting. To me Neils guitar and range puts him way over the top

I see were youre coming from though. Bob Dylan is just more of a household name


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:13 pm 
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oceans420 wrote:
the verb to trust wrote:
Neil Young is incredible. I think he deserves to be held in a respect closer to Bob Dylan than he is by many rock critics. Which isn't to say Bob Dylan isn't deserving of all the credit he gets, just Neil Young should be getting a lot of the same. Anywho, rock critics are stupid so who cares.

I need On the Beach. So many people on this board list this as there favorite and I've never heard it. I feel deprived.

And yes Ragged glory is awesome.


I respect Dylan, but to me Neil is by far the better musician and can even hold his own with Dylan's writting. To me Neils guitar and range puts him way over the top

I see were youre coming from though. Bob Dylan is just more of a household name



I hold them both in extremely high regards, and they both make up about half of my listening time. Sometimes I prefer Neil, others I prefer Bob, but I listen to both a lot more than anything else.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:13 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Anybody else have Timeframe? I just picked it up. It's a four disc bootleg of unreleased material. I haven't listened to it yet, but I figure it'll be good to tide me over for the 900 years that it'll take to actually get the Archives project done.


can i see the setlist perhaps?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:15 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Anybody else have Timeframe? I just picked it up. It's a four disc bootleg of unreleased material. I haven't listened to it yet, but I figure it'll be good to tide me over for the 900 years that it'll take to actually get the Archives project done.


I need to hunt this down, or the Archives Be Damned set.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:41 pm 
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oceans420 wrote:
the verb to trust wrote:
Neil Young is incredible. I think he deserves to be held in a respect closer to Bob Dylan than he is by many rock critics. Which isn't to say Bob Dylan isn't deserving of all the credit he gets, just Neil Young should be getting a lot of the same. Anywho, rock critics are stupid so who cares.

I need On the Beach. So many people on this board list this as there favorite and I've never heard it. I feel deprived.

And yes Ragged glory is awesome.


I respect Dylan, but to me Neil is by far the better musician and can even hold his own with Dylan's writting. To me Neils guitar and range puts him way over the top

I see were youre coming from though. Bob Dylan is just more of a household name


its for various reasons.
while i don't want to make it seem like dylan is a consistency kind of guy, but unlike neil he has some sort of consistency. I mean times and free wheeling then going half electric with bringing it all back home, then going full electric to highway 61. While this was revolutionary and breakthrough at the time and seemed suprising, it nonetheless beared consistency from time to time. And dylan maintained this throughout his career. blonde on blonde with blood on the tracks. and such. while he maintained stages of his career, it all had a similar kind of jelly consistency you know what i mean?

but neil is just....unpredictable, and to a lot of hard core fans thats why we love him. I mean think about it, in one decade he released rust never sleeps, tonights the night, on the beach, harvest, and after the goldrush. While we neil fans hold songs like tonights the night, ambulance blues, motion pictures, hey hey my my, needle, and sedan delivery as "classic" neil songs. Really think back, how much consistency is there in going from an album like harvest with songs like old man, to tonights the night and all of its eccentricity, albeit perfect weirdness :D.

That inconsistency pissed a countless number of people off. Then the 80's rolled around and we saw trans, landing on water, reactor, hawks and doves, and a load of other crazy albums roll around. this obviously alienated even more people.

Add in that most fans neil drew around hte 70's were without a doubt left wing politics people or at least democrats, then he alienated them by being very hardcore pro reagen. I know people who have never recovered from neil's "judas betrayal". and have yet to give any neil music a chance any more.

Its evident neil rebounded beautifully in the 90's up till now. And unlike dylan he's able to produce top line stuff even in his elder years. I mean dylan's recent stuff like "time out of mind" are beautiful and i love dark eyes. But if you compared dark eyes to early dylan, say ballad of a thin man it falls flat on its face. While last decade neil stuff like free world can matchup to classics like walk on. which to me respects neil much more than i do dylan, musically at least. also neil has kept his voice and still brings down the house live...the same cannot be said for the shell that is bob dylan.

So in a really long and drawn out way thats an explanation of why dylan has this "higher ground" than neil.

Some other various reasons:
think about how many freaking people have covered a dylan song. How many covers of knocking on heavens door are there? or all along the watchtower? etc.

ever notice that every person ever was compared to bob dylan, justly or not? donovan was europe's response to bob dylan. lenoard cohen was the canadian bob dylan. erik anderson was teh next bob dylan. phil ochs was the other bob dylan. bruce springsteen was the next bob dylan. bright eyes is "the modern bob dylan". and so forth.

while some of these comparisons aren't fair, regardless anybody from that time period of 60's to 70's if they were a singer songwriter and were even fairly political they were the next or compared to bob dylan in some way shape or form whether it was warranted or not.

actually come to think of it they didn't have to be political even. The springsteen comparison started immedietly after born to run. Which in itself was remarkabely skewed.
Personally, i feel springsteen has surpassed dylan and his political work is more guthrie than it is dylan. But all of springsteen's early work lyrically weren't in the average chorus refrain, chorus setup that dylan and the beatles popularized. Springsteen did anthems and stories, like new york city serenade and essentially the whole "wild innocent e street shuffle" cd. And even born to run, backstreets and jungle land hardly hold any resemblance to any dylan songs. but nonetheless despite these large gaps, because springsteen was a singer songwriter and obviously incredibly good at it, he was "the next bob dylan". obviously for the rest of his career and even up till now he still draws those comparisons, but hey thats everybody.

and hell look at bright eyes, he isn't even remotely like dylan. yet he's gained the title of the new bob dylan. Why? because he has an apparently "bad voice" and writes his own songs, what bullshit. i'm not going to go into a big rant. but let me leave it at this. Bright eyes couldn't hold any lyrical merit to recent dave matthews, i mean every day and busted stuff dave matthews. So for some to go as far as comparing bright eyes to FUCKING BLOOD ON THE TRACKS. Is just fucking...ok i said i wouldn't go into a rant lets leave it at that.

Nowadays or even in the past if somebody wrote their own songs, was politically minded in some fasion, or in the public view has a bad voice, they are some sort of bob dylan re-incarnation.

This is probably, along with the inconsistency matter, why once again dylan is regarded so highly over neil in the public eye.

and hell, neil himself said he was the B student of bob dylan.

ok that was a big ass explanation and i'd be suprised if anybody read it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:46 pm 
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Pat H wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Anybody else have Timeframe? I just picked it up. It's a four disc bootleg of unreleased material. I haven't listened to it yet, but I figure it'll be good to tide me over for the 900 years that it'll take to actually get the Archives project done.


I need to hunt this down, or the Archives Be Damned set.


i have archives be damned.
Its an inconsistent as hell thing. Disc 3 i think it was? pissed me the hell off. But its really really really really really worth getting.

I'm assuming you've heard crime in the city? Archives be damned has "sixty to zero", which as you probably know is the full crime in the city lyrically. You thought crime in the city was long heh, sixty to zero is 19 plus minutes of lyrics.

Archives be damned is worth sixty to zero alone. You get some goodies most people already have like ordinary people and dead man theme as well. But its a fantasitc compilation, but some of the stuff is just kinda...bleh. But i expected that.

Rock n roll cowboy is my fav neil young compilation.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:55 pm 
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lukin10 wrote:
Pat H wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Anybody else have Timeframe? I just picked it up. It's a four disc bootleg of unreleased material. I haven't listened to it yet, but I figure it'll be good to tide me over for the 900 years that it'll take to actually get the Archives project done.


I need to hunt this down, or the Archives Be Damned set.


i have archives be damned.
Its an inconsistent as hell thing. Disc 3 i think it was? pissed me the hell off. But its really really really really really worth getting.

I'm assuming you've heard crime in the city? Archives be damned has "sixty to zero", which as you probably know is the full crime in the city lyrically. You thought crime in the city was long heh, sixty to zero is 19 plus minutes of lyrics.

Archives be damned is worth sixty to zero alone. You get some goodies most people already have like ordinary people and dead man theme as well. But its a fantasitc compilation, but some of the stuff is just kinda...bleh. But i expected that.

Rock n roll cowboy is my fav neil young compilation.



I love Crime in the City. I definitely need to get on these rarities


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:54 pm 
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lukin 10: well put

I'll admit at 25, I have the luxery of seeing both artists full life work without living it. Actually, thats not benefit, but oh well.

I totally agree with the consistancy thing.

I have one thing to add though: I saw Neil at a Sold out United Center during the Greendale tour. The same year I saw Bob Dylan in the parking lot of a local Jillians that was half full. I've noticed Neil plays to sold out arenas, while Dylan struggles to sell tickets in venues half the size. I dont know what this adds to the discussion, if anything. Just an intersting point.


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Quote:
can i see the setlist perhaps?


Image

I haven't look hard enough to see whether or not there are any differences between this and Archives be Damned, but I'd doubt it.


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oceans420 wrote:
lukin 10: well put

I'll admit at 25, I have the luxery of seeing both artists full life work without living it. Actually, thats not benefit, but oh well.

I totally agree with the consistancy thing.

I have one thing to add though: I saw Neil at a Sold out United Center during the Greendale tour. The same year I saw Bob Dylan in the parking lot of a local Jillians that was half full. I've noticed Neil plays to sold out arenas, while Dylan struggles to sell tickets in venues half the size. I dont know what this adds to the discussion, if anything. Just an intersting point.



I think that has to do with marketing.

When the Greendale tour came around it was talked about on the radio about it for a good month and a half before the concert. I've never heard anything about Bob Dylan's tours on the radio in my life.

Alot of people also think that Bob Dylan is dead or retired, so that doesnt help with his ticket sales either.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:12 pm 
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Pat H wrote:
oceans420 wrote:
lukin 10: well put

I'll admit at 25, I have the luxery of seeing both artists full life work without living it. Actually, thats not benefit, but oh well.

I totally agree with the consistancy thing.

I have one thing to add though: I saw Neil at a Sold out United Center during the Greendale tour. The same year I saw Bob Dylan in the parking lot of a local Jillians that was half full. I've noticed Neil plays to sold out arenas, while Dylan struggles to sell tickets in venues half the size. I dont know what this adds to the discussion, if anything. Just an intersting point.



I think that has to do with marketing.

When the Greendale tour came around it was talked about on the radio about it for a good month and a half before the concert. I've never heard anything about Bob Dylan's tours on the radio in my life.

Alot of people also think that Bob Dylan is dead or retired, so that doesnt help with his ticket sales either.


Neither does the fact that he tours with willie nelson and that he has apparently decided that he doesn't sing anymore. Now he just grumbles.

I don't care what people say, listening to his early concert 1966 stuff i fucking love dylan's voice. Its incredible. Everybody says he can't sing, but his voice is absolutely incredible to me, only vedder and tom waits can top it. But live he just doesn't use it. He seems to care to be scared or something, it just freaking pisses me off.

Thanks for showing me the setlist. The archives set list is...
Setlist:
-----------------
Neil Young
Archives Be Damned 2000

Disc One

1) Born To Run (rehearsals 1990)
2) Forever Young (San Francisco 11-3-91)
3) Bad Fog Of Loneliness (Studio 1973)
4) It Might Have Been (Cincinnati 2-25-70)
5) Everybody’s Alone (San Francisco 2-19-70)
7) Johnny (NYC 10-1-83, played on the PA after the show)
8) Goodbye Dick (Uniondale, NY 8-14-74)
9) Pushed It Over The End (Chicago 8-27-74)
10) Everything Is Broken (Mtn View 10-28-89)
11) Ordinary People (Wantagh, NY 8-27-88)
12) Farmers’ Song (Bristow, VA 9-12-99)
13) Berlin (West Berlin 10-19-82)
14) Nothing Is Perfect (St. Paul 9-1-85)
15) Come Along And Say You Will (Toronto 1-15-73)

Disc two

1) If You Got Love (Goteburg 10-8-82)
2) Sweet Joni (Bakersfield 3-11-73)
3) There Goes My Babe (studio demo 1966)
4) Dance, Dance, Dance (London 2-23-71)
5) Soul Of A Woman (Dallas 7-15-83)
6) Your Love Is Good To Me (Santa Cruz 2-6-84 early)
7) Do You Wanna Dance? (Dayton 9-18-83)
8) Hello Lonely Woman (Wantagh, NY 8-27-88)
9) Lady Wingshot (Eureka, CA 2-18-89)
10) Fool For Your Love (Detroit 9-4-88)
11) Aurora (single demo 7-23-63)
12) Live To Ride (Torhout 7-3-93)
13) Big Room (Santa Cruz 11-2-87 late)
14) So Tired (Santa Cruz 2-7-84 late)
15) Grey Riders (St. Paul 9-1-85)
16) Rock, Rock, Rock (Santa Cruz 2-7-84 late)
17) Bright Sunny Day (Clarkston, MI 9-18-78)
18) Leavin' The Top Forty Behind (Studio 1985)
19) I Ain’t Got The Blues (demo Nov 1965)

Disc three

1) Love Hotel (Birmingham, UK 9-24-82)
2) Kansas (Oakland 3-20-99)
3) Homefires (Upper Darby, PA 3-24-92)
4) Love Art Blues (Seattle 7-9-74)
5) Separate Ways (Torhout 7-3-93)
6) Crime Of The Heart (Albuquerque 10-25-88)
7) Bad News (Wantagh, NY 8-27-88)
8) Stranger In Paradise (Mtn View 11-6-93)
9) Run Around Babe (demo Nov 1965)
10) Find Another Shoulder (Santa Cruz 11-2-87)
11) Your Love Again (outtake 1985)
12) Guilty Train (Boston 11-22-76)
13) Dog House (Detroit 9-4-88)
14) Windward Passage (Santa Cruz 8-22-77)
15) No One Seems To Know (Santa Cruz 1-5-83)
16) Extra, Extra (demo Nov 1965)
17) Give Me Strength (Chicago 11-15-76 late)
18) Walking After Midnight (NYC 4-19-88 late)

Disc four

1) Rainin’ In Paradise (Studio 1982)
2) Amber Jean (Austin 9-25-84)
3) Hawaiian Sunrise (Long Island 9-8-74)
4) One More Sign (Studio 1966)
5) Winter Winds/Turbine (Berkeley 10-3-80)
6) Hillbilly Band (Costa Mesa, CA 10-24-84)
7) Modern World (Santa Cruz 5-19-97)
8) Road Of Plenty (Minneapolis 10-17-86)
9) Beautiful Bluebird (outtake 1985)
10) High Heels (Santa Cruz 11-2-87 late)
11) I Shall Be Released (Mtn View 10-30-99)
12) That’s All Right (Dallas 7-15-83)
13) Sultan (single 7-23-63)
14) The Rent Is Always Due (demo Nov 1965)
15) Hitchhiker (Saratoga Springs, NY 6-29-92)
16) Time Off For Good Behavior (outtake 1985)

Disc Five

1) Sixty To Zero (Toronto 8-19-88)
2) Box Car (Spokane 2-23-89)
4) Sad Movies (London, 3-28-76)
5) I’m Goin’ (Wantagh, NY 9-27-88)
6) I Wonder Why (Studio 1986)
7) Don’t Pity Me, Babe (demo 1965)
9) Evening Coconut (Springfield, MA 6-27-76)
10) Fingers (Austin 9-25-84)
11) I Wonder (Studio/Winnipeg/4-23-64?)
12) Mediterranean (Studio, mid 1970s)
13) Greensleeves (NYC 5-16-74)
14) Dead Man, Acoustic Theme (promo, 1995)

More info about the songs at the Web site, http://www.butterweck.de/abd2000/main.htm .

missing tracks
disc one track 6
disc five tracks 3 and 8
---------------
So ya they're pretty similar.
ABD just seems to have some dylan covers and a few more, but i'd still seek out "sixty to zero" which timeframe doesn't have.

I heard a lot about this "echos" compilation also. Anybody else here have it and is it worth getting if i already have rock n roll cowboy and ABD?


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