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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:53 pm 
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BadMusic wrote:
SmilinSkullRing wrote:
I just watched some youtube videos of Sabbath in the 70s. :nice:


Here's the full Paris 1970 show:
http://www.invisibleoranges.com/2010/12 ... -1970-dvd/

:thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:30 am 
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LostDog1079 wrote:
The two best Sabbath songs, in my opinion, are 2 that they did with Dio:
"Heaven & Hell"
"The Mob Rules"

Check those 2 out when you can.


The Dio AND Tony Martin eras rock very well, though aren't as immediately accessible as the first 3 Sab slabs.

Vol. 4 (the album) showcases the greatest assemblage of riffs known to man. Can't think of any band that comes close; perhaps Soundgarden in the Badmotofinger/Superunknown eras (and maybe Jesus Lizard too, but some of their riffs, although Godlike, can grate on the ears).


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:37 am 
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bart d. wrote:
Junco Partner wrote:
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath was the most solid record they put out with ozzy, not as much of a hits record as paranoid, but just better in general. master of reality and vol. 4 have the most embarrasingly bad production qualities of any music iv ever heard, they made solid songs, just shat away too much money on drugs. sabotage is good, and I love their first record.

ozzy sold out when he started his solo career. in sabbath he sometimes actually seemed to have some decent social commentary (war pigs, after forever [sorta], hand of doom, ect.) but seemd to resign himself to cheesy insubstantial subject matter. its a fact, not really an opinion.

Ozzy didn't write the lyrics. Hence the drastic downturn in quality after he lost Geezer as a writer.


Ozzy's solo lyrics were alright, as long as Sharon Arden wasn't scheming to screw over lyricists/musicians such as Bob Daisley and Lee Kerslake in the process.

Any album without lyrical contributions from Daisley, Kerslake, or Kilmester is the worst kind of rotting linberger bleu cheese.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:27 am 
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Junco Partner wrote:
master of reality and vol. 4 have the most embarrasingly bad production qualities of any music iv ever heard

:roll:

"Master of Reality" is super fucking godhead awesome.

What a thick wall of stoner rock goodness.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:32 am 
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spenno wrote:
Junco Partner wrote:
master of reality and vol. 4 have the most embarrasingly bad production qualities of any music iv ever heard

:roll:

"Master of Reality" is super fucking godhead awesome.

What a thick wall of stoner rock goodness.


Srsly,

Master of Reality is what Badmotorfinger should've sounded like. But sadly, the Knights of the Soundtable were cursed with a Terry Date turtlewax production.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:36 pm 
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I love Ozzy & Dio era Sabbath and Tony Martin wasn't bad either. Eternal Idol and Headless Cross have more of a later 80's feel but some very strong metal as well.

P.S. Master of Reality and Vol 4 are monster albums. Sound bad? No fucking way.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:32 am 
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Iommi has cancer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bi ... m-16474807

:thumbsdown:


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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:24 pm 
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I really should get some '70's-era Sabbath albums. I've always really liked a lot of that stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:28 pm 
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spenno wrote:



terrible news. here's hoping he kicks cancer's ass.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Fucking cancer. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:49 pm 
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blues02 wrote:
Fucking cancer. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:05 am 
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Well, it was a nice idea while it lasted. Bill Ward possibly out of the reunion over a contractual dispute:

Quote:
http://www.billward.com/2012/02/statement-on-black-sabbath-album-tour/

Los Angeles, CA – February 2, 2012

Dear Sabbath Fans, Fellow Musicians and Interested Parties,

At this time, I would love nothing more than to be able to proceed with the Black Sabbath album and tour. However, I am unable to continue unless a “signable” contract is drawn up; a contract that reflects some dignity and respect toward me as an original member of the band. Last year, I worked diligently in good faith with Tony, Ozzy and Geezer. And on 11/11/11, again in good faith, I participated in the L.A. press conference. Several days ago, after nearly a year of trying to negotiate, another “unsignable” contract was handed to me.

Let me say that although this has put me in some kind of holding pattern, I am packed and ready to leave the U.S. for England. More importantly, I definitely want to play on the album, and I definitely want to tour with Black Sabbath.

Since the news of Tony’s illness, and the understanding that the band would move production to the U.K., I’ve spent everyday getting to or living in a place of readiness to leave. That involves something of a task, and as I’ve tried to find out what’s going on with the U.K. sessions, I’ve realized that I’ve been getting “the cold shoulder” (and, I might add, not for the first time). Feeling somewhat ostracized, my guess is as of today, I will know nothing of what’shappening unless I sign “the unsignable contract.”

The place I’m in feels lousy and lonely because as much as I want to play and participate, I also have to stand for something and not sign on. If I sign as-is, I stand to lose my rights, dignity and respectability as a rock musician. I believe in freedom and freedom of speech. I grew up in a hard rock/metal band. We stood for something then, and we played from the heart with honesty and sincerity. I am in the spirit of integrity, far from the corporate malady, I am real and honest, fair and compassionate.

If I’m replaced, I have to face you, the beloved Sabbath fans. I hope you will not hold me responsible for the failure of an original Black Sabbath lineup as promoted. Without fault finding, I want to assure everyone that my loyalty to Sabbath is intact.

So here I am. I lay my truth down before you. I’m good to go IF I get a “signable” contract. I don’t want to let anyone down, especially Black Sabbath and all the Sabbath fans. You know I love you. It would be a sad day in Rock if this current situation fell to the desires of a few.

My position is not greed-driven. I’m not holding out for a “big piece” of the action (money) like some kind of blackmail deal. I’d like something that recognizes and is reflective of my contributions to the band, including the reunions that started fourteen years ago. After the last tour I vowed to never again sign on to an unreasonable contract. I want a contract that shows some respect to me and my family, a contract that will honor all that I’ve brought to Black Sabbath since its beginning.

That’s the story so far.

Stay safe and stay strong.

I love every single one of you.

–Bill Ward


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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:11 am 
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Quote:
http://www.blacksabbath.com/article_03.html

We were saddened to hear yesterday via Facebook that Bill declined publicly to participate in our current Black Sabbath plans...we have no choice but to continue recording without him although our door is always open... We are still in the UK with Tony. Writing and recording the new album and on a roll... See you at Download!!!

– Tony, Ozzy and Geezer

No Bill Ward = not really Black Sabbath.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:41 am 
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spenno wrote:
Quote:
http://www.blacksabbath.com/article_03.html

We were saddened to hear yesterday via Facebook that Bill declined publicly to participate in our current Black Sabbath plans...we have no choice but to continue recording without him although our door is always open... We are still in the UK with Tony. Writing and recording the new album and on a roll... See you at Download!!!

– Tony, Ozzy and Geezer

No Bill Ward = not really Black Sabbath.


This reeks of Sharon, I would doubt he is being offered 25% of what they make, which is what he deserves.

Henry Rollins has a pretty good quote about that band being those 4 guys, and without one of them, they just aren't Sabbath. Couldn't agree more.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 8:12 am 
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It looks as though they tried to work something out only for it fall apart again:

Quote:
Dear Sabbath Fans and Fellow Musicians,

I sincerely regret to inform you that after a final effort to participate in the upcoming Sabbath shows a failure to agree has continued. At this time I have to inform you that I won’t be playing with Black Sabbath at the Birmingham gig dated May 19th, 2012, nor will I be playing at Download on June 10th, 2012. Further, I will not be playing at Lollapalooza on August 3, 2012.

It is with a very sad heart that I bring you this news. I am sincerely passionate in my desire to play with the band, and I’m very, very sorry that it’s fallen to this. This statement is even more painstaking to write, as I was particularly excited to play alongside Tony Iommi after the recent treatments he underwent. I wanted that to become a reality.

To express my thoughts about you, the Sabbath fans, I’m going to speak to you all through an experience my brother James had recently. My brother Jimmy lives in the U.K. When speaking with him a couple of days ago, he told me that an acquaintance had stopped him on the street and confronted him, “is your brother playing Birmingham? What’s going on? I waited in line with my son and paid x amount for the concert tickets.”

The man’s son is a young drummer. He’s going to see Sabbath, and he wants to see Bill Ward play drums. Upon hearing this news, I felt horrible. I couldn’t help feeling some resentment towards the failure to reach an agreement, the failure to remember where we came from, the failure to be as brothers, as we once were. To be clear, I’m not blaming the other guys or finding any faults with them. I would think it can’t be easy for them either, but this situation is just really sad. It’s sad that it’s come to this. “This” will surely leave a mark and be unwelcome to the memory. Hopefully “this” will heal and pass in time.

My heart sank when Jimmy told me about this young boy. I know this boy is going to be disappointed, and I don’t know how to amend it, other than to put my arms around the boy and tell him I love him. Sabbath fans have a voice and a face, to me you’re human, you have families and despair. You have ferocity and emotions and graciousness, and at this moment as far as I’m concerned you are also that young boy in England. I don’t know how to amend my part in these failings other than to put my arms around you and say I love you and let you know I’m very, very sorry.

Throughout this process, which began over a year ago, I have had to stand up for myself time and time again. I have had to stand up for myself and in doing so realize my actions indirectly, although unintentionally, are upsetting and hurting a lot of you. I know in my heart I couldn’t have done these concerts by agreeing the terms suggested. I made a solemn vow after the last European and Ozzfest concerts that I would never again enter into what was, in my opinion, a totally unsatisfactory contract. I have to stand for something, and as painful as it is, I’m doing it.

Earlier in April 2012, I’d been asked to participate “minimally” in the Download festival. I believe I’d been offered no more than three songs to play while another drummer presumably played the rest of the show with Black Sabbath. I was not willing to participate in that offer. I was not prepared to watch another drummer play a Sabbath set, while I was to play only three songs.

I found out about the Birmingham gig on Monday, April 30 through the Internet ad. I was taken aback somewhat by the date, and the fact it was Birmingham. Knowing the “signable” contract negotiations were at best in shreds, I was upset by the idea that the band was going to play Birmingham and play it assumedly without me. I had no prior knowledge of the date and location, and I felt totally excluded. We contacted the representative for Black Sabbath to see if something could be worked out. In the meantime my drum crew and I, along with our US endorsers, finished all the necessary planning for a swift departure to the UK. There wasn’t a whole lot to complete; we’d all been on standby more or less since mid-January 2012. The remaining work in the UK was confirmed done by our European and UK endorsers and we were good to go by Friday, May 4 2012. There were two stress points: firstly, getting an agreement in place, and secondly, getting to England in a timely manner. Jetlag time was taken into account as well as drum practice, a drum practice room in the heart of Birmingham, accommodation, and travel arrangements were all in place to meet with any band rehearsals that may have transpired before the Birmingham show. So far everything that had been arranged was on my dime, but we didn’t move ahead without a realistic confirmation.

Communications between the representative and my lawyer continued through the weekend of May 5 finalizing on Wednesday, May 9. The offer we received on May 9 was, “come to the UK, play for free and see how the first show goes.” I was tempted. Playing for free would not have been a problem for me, but “seeing how the first show goes” left an element of risk which could have affected Download. My ideal thought was to play in full the Birmingham show, in full Download, and in full Lollapalooza.

I had notified the representative that May 10 was my cutoff day in order to have good lead-in time for England. On the night of May 9 I asked for a brief letter to be sent to the representative asking to find out if we were at an end. On the morning of Thursday, May 10, I received a reply in the affirmative. After consulting with my advisors and crew a decision was made to let go and stop.

I can’t prioritize the Sabbath fans making one show more important than the other. I can’t do that. All of you are important. It’s all the gigs or none at all. I can’t come to Birmingham and “see what happens” knowing there is a risk of not being able to play Download or Lollapalooza. Again, for me, it’s all or nothing. I had to say “no” to Birmingham on the principle of wanting to play all the shows. Saying no to Birmingham is very difficult for me. My family grew up in Birmingham. Black Sabbath grew up in Birmingham. It’s still my hometown and I resent having to arrive at such a difficult choice.

Although the statement was made that, “the door is always open” for me, as explained above, walking through that door is not always as easy as it sounds. There are many complicated issues and unseen and unspoken agendas on hand. I can assure you, my criteria for a “signable” contract is based in mindful principles, respectability, and acknowledgement of my history within the band.

I hold no malice or resentment towards the other band members. I love them; I’m tolerant of them; I’m frustrated with them, as they may be with me. My fight has never been with them. I’ll love them forever. In my opinion, nobody wins this time; the band doesn’t win; the fans for an original lineup don’t win. Nobody wins, nobody. Even the ones who thought they did.

I didn’t want to make this decision, but I have to be honest and transparent. This is the statement I didn’t want to write; it’s the last thing I wanted to do. But, I have written it, and now it can go into the universe.

Since Spring of 2011, I’ve waited patiently and hopefully for a signable contract, you know the rest. I stand for the boy in the U.K., for the coming drum student, for all the drummers, who write their parts out and get stiffed on the publishing, I stand with the Sabbath fans chanting “Bill Ward” and asking “why?” and I stand with Tony and Geezer and Ozzy.

On a final note, even though I’m at an end with the upcoming announced concerts, I will remain with an open mind and a position of willingness to negotiate "signable" terms with Sabbath’s representatives in the future.

Stay strong.
Stay safe.

With all my heart and strength, I love you,
Bill Ward


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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:27 am 
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...and in response:

Quote:
HEAVY HEART
Posted on May 19, 2012

I feel sad to see the Sabbath reunion becoming a bit of a soap opera on the internet. It has been a very tough year for us as a band, having announced our reunion plans, only for Tony to be diagnosed with lymphoma, leaving us no choice but to postpone the proposed Sabbath tour, and then for Bill to go public on his site about an un-signable contract. None of us knew how Tony was going to respond to his intensive chemo therapy, and radiotherapy. Ozzy and myself flew to England to be with Tony, and on his “good” days, we’d meet at his home studio and put ideas together for the upcoming album, all sitting down together, no drummer involved, just 3 of us quietly putting together ideas. We thought that when we had enough songs together for a full band rehearsal, we’d move back to L.A and put the whole thing together with Bill. Unfortunately, to our surprise, Bill issued a statement on his site saying he’d been offered an un-signable contract. He hadn’t told any one of us he was having contractual problems, and frankly those things are worked out between our representatives, and never between the four of us let alone in public. We had the idea of keeping just one show in this year, hoping that Tony would be well enough for that show, and that things with Bill would be sorted. As you may expect, a one off show at Donnington Festival (Download) costs an absolute fortune to stage, involving over 50 people, transport, air fares, hotels, meals, agents, promotors, accountants, lawyers etc, so none of us, expected to make much money from it- it was a one off Sabbath show for the fans, before we go into recording the new album. Apparently, this wasn’t acceptable to Bill’s representatives, they wanted an amount that was so unrealistic that it seemed to have been a joke. So we resigned ourselves to doing Download without Bill, hoping he’d change his mind and at least make a guest appearance. We started rehearsals a few weeks ago with Tommy Cluefetos, the drummer who will be on the Ozzy and Friends Tour. Brilliant drummer and good bloke. It was decided we’d better do a warm up show, to break the ice since we haven’t played together live. The O2 Academy was available in Birmingham, where we were rehearsing, so we decided on that, and to make a donation to Help For Heroes Charity, since we’d be ironing out any glitches we may have. Then Bill put out a further statement saying he’d been ready to play the Birmingham show , but he was expected to have to do it “for free”- well, I think that’s basically how you raise money from gigs for charity – you play them “for free”.

All I am saying is that there are two sides to everything. I do hope to play with Bill again some day. For whatever reason; it wasn’t meant to be this time. Bill’s made his decision, and I have to respect that. Hopefully this painful year will be worth the wait for the new Sabbath album and end in joy and happiness for all.

Stay frosty,
Geezer


Anyway, they played Birmingham last night:

Quote:
Into the Void
Under the Sun
Snowblind
War Pigs
Wheels of Confusion
Electric Funeral
Black Sabbath
The Wizard
Behind the Wall of Sleep
NIB
Fairies Wear Boots
Tomorrow’s Dream
Sweet Leaf
Symptom of the Universe/Drum Solo
Iron Man
Dirty Women
Children of the Grave

(Sabbath Bloody Sabbath intro)/Paranoid

Shame they couldn't work things out with Bill - sounds like a little more communication from both sides would've helped.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:48 pm 
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This is all a bit stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:48 am 
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I'm no expert in human behavior, but I suspect this may be at the root of the problem:

Quote:
and frankly those things are worked out between our representatives

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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:51 am 
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Geezer always was the coolest.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:25 am 
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bart d. wrote:
Geezer always was the coolest.

I must try working the phrase "stay frosty" into daily conversation.

Also, they gave the fill-in drummer a drum solo: :?


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