Red Mosquito :: View topic - Smashing Pumpkins Reissues 2011 -

So, when you say "key live tracks," you don't really mean "key live tracks"--you mean, "a full unedited show, or else." Again, you want one thing, you get something different, and it amounts to the band being lazy.

Artists frequently reissue albums with little to no bonus material whatsoever, usually on the basis of improved sound quality, which audiophiles of varying capacities are free to debate but which is nonetheless a regular marketing platform for the rerelease of old records. The Beatles reissued their entire discography two years ago, and there was nary a bonus track to be found. Bob Dylan rereleased most of his in 2003-2004--again, zero bonus material, better sound quality, but probably not enough to justify spending what it would cost to re-purchase the entire catalog. The idea that these projects are strictly to appease the appetites of fans who feel entitled to every note and scratch the artist has stowed away in an archive somewhere is asinine. More than anything, reissues afford old albums a chance to re-emerge into the public consciousness and awaken wider audiences to what they have to offer--they get reviewed in magazines again, they get the perks of being advertised again, and maybe some kid who wasn't culturally aware in 1995 might catch wind of them and revisit them the same way people my age revisited those Beatles and Dylan albums. Again, you can be cynical and chock it up to financial greed if you want--but regardless, a side effect is a benefit to their legacy.

Why are you so insistent on creating a false dichotomy? There are any number of 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and so on hypothetical reasons why those reissues could have been what they ended up being. Maybe, just maybe, they listened carefully to everything they had vaulted and thought, "You know, some of this is interesting, but we'd really prefer these reissues not to be the avenue by which they come out." Or, "Yeah, fans would love these, but if we put them out now, we'll have nothing to use for that 6CD box set of career studio outtakes we have on the backburner for 2014." This whole business of putting yourself in the artist's mind and stating with near certainty what their frame of mind was regarding any given release is arrogant and logically fallacious. Really. If you're not in the band, or part of the band's circle, you're blowing smoke out your ass.

I think there's some major selective amnesia going on in regards to Pearl Jam's fan-friendliness. I can't believe no one remembers how many threads there used to be on various boards about how Ten needed to be remixed and bereft of all its early 90's reverb. Then it happens, RM strikes back with its almighty barrage of "meh"s, and it turns into "OMG IT'S LIKE PEARL JAM DOESN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THEIR FANS!!" Seriously?

Author:	Kevin Davis [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
So, when you say "key live tracks," you don't really mean "key live tracks"--you mean, "a full unedited show, or else." Again, you want one thing, you get something different, and it amounts to the band being lazy. Artists frequently reissue albums with little to no bonus material whatsoever, usually on the basis of improved sound quality, which audiophiles of varying capacities are free to debate but which is nonetheless a regular marketing platform for the rerelease of old records. The Beatles reissued their entire discography two years ago, and there was nary a bonus track to be found. Bob Dylan rereleased most of his in 2003-2004--again, zero bonus material, better sound quality, but probably not enough to justify spending what it would cost to re-purchase the entire catalog. The idea that these projects are strictly to appease the appetites of fans who feel entitled to every note and scratch the artist has stowed away in an archive somewhere is asinine. More than anything, reissues afford old albums a chance to re-emerge into the public consciousness and awaken wider audiences to what they have to offer--they get reviewed in magazines again, they get the perks of being advertised again, and maybe some kid who wasn't culturally aware in 1995 might catch wind of them and revisit them the same way people my age revisited those Beatles and Dylan albums. Again, you can be cynical and chock it up to financial greed if you want--but regardless, a side effect is a benefit to their legacy. matt reeder wrote: Either they aren't prolific and released the only things we haven't heard that are listenable, or they just didn't try. Why are you so insistent on creating a false dichotomy? There are any number of 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and so on hypothetical reasons why those reissues could have been what they ended up being. Maybe, just maybe, they listened carefully to everything they had vaulted and thought, "You know, some of this is interesting, but we'd really prefer these reissues not to be the avenue by which they come out." Or, "Yeah, fans would love these, but if we put them out now, we'll have nothing to use for that 6CD box set of career studio outtakes we have on the backburner for 2014." This whole business of putting yourself in the artist's mind and stating with near certainty what their frame of mind was regarding any given release is arrogant and logically fallacious. Really. If you're not in the band, or part of the band's circle, you're blowing smoke out your ass. I think there's some major selective amnesia going on in regards to Pearl Jam's fan-friendliness. I can't believe no one remembers how many threads there used to be on various boards about how Ten needed to be remixed and bereft of all its early 90's reverb. Then it happens, RM strikes back with its almighty barrage of "meh"s, and it turns into "OMG IT'S LIKE PEARL JAM DOESN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THEIR FANS!!" Seriously?

Author:	J's Brain [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
The bonus discs are fucking fantastic. I have a feeling these barely scratch the surface of what Billy recorded back in the early 90s... they probably could have put out a 4 disc set for each album like the Achtung Baby reissue!

Author:	matt reeder [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
Kevin Davis wrote: So, when you say "key live tracks," you don't really mean "key live tracks"--you mean, "a full unedited show, or else." Again, you want one thing, you get something different, and it amounts to the band being lazy. Artists frequently reissue albums with little to no bonus material whatsoever, usually on the basis of improved sound quality, which audiophiles of varying capacities are free to debate but which is nonetheless a regular marketing platform for the rerelease of old records. The Beatles reissued their entire discography two years ago, and there was nary a bonus track to be found. Bob Dylan rereleased most of his in 2003-2004--again, zero bonus material, better sound quality, but probably not enough to justify spending what it would cost to re-purchase the entire catalog. The idea that these projects are strictly to appease the appetites of fans who feel entitled to every note and scratch the artist has stowed away in an archive somewhere is asinine. More than anything, reissues afford old albums a chance to re-emerge into the public consciousness and awaken wider audiences to what they have to offer--they get reviewed in magazines again, they get the perks of being advertised again, and maybe some kid who wasn't culturally aware in 1995 might catch wind of them and revisit them the same way people my age revisited those Beatles and Dylan albums. Again, you can be cynical and chock it up to financial greed if you want--but regardless, a side effect is a benefit to their legacy. Getting part of the Orpheum show was nice, though of course, not as nice as releasing the entire tape that exists. But by key live tracks I mean, for example, the version of "Rockin' In The Free World" with Neil Young from the 1993 VMAs. "Blood" and "Yellow Ledbetter" from the "Daughter" single, and perhaps more from that show. Maybe one of the early versions of "Daughter" with different lyrics. All of those things are out there in some form on bootlegs, but could very easily have been compiled in one place. The lack of the non-Lost Dogs b-sides is particularly interesting. Of course anyone with a What account could download all the singles, but it isn't like those CD singles are all that easy to find now outside of the used bin of the larger independent record stores. Their legacy is entirely what this is about, and what it is about for every artist, along with the money. I'm sure in Pearl Jam's case it's about getting the albums back out there for younger people. I just wish they had (in my opinion) tried harder to make the reissue special enough to warrant me purchasing it. The Ten reissue was okay. I'm mostly talking about the Vs. and Vitalogy reissues. The Beatles had to reissue their discography as the existing CD recordings were completely insufficient. They had no bonus tracks to reissue as everything they have ever done has been bootlegged into the ground and they had already released the best of their rarities in the Anthology series. I mean, anybody who wants to can download something like 20 discs of Let It Be outtakes. It's already out there. The Beatles are not a good example of this. Kevin Davis wrote: Why are you so insistent on creating a false dichotomy? There are any number of 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and so on hypothetical reasons why those reissues could have been what they ended up being. Maybe, just maybe, they listened carefully to everything they had vaulted and thought, "You know, some of this is interesting, but we'd really prefer these reissues not to be the avenue by which they come out." Or, "Yeah, fans would love these, but if we put them out now, we'll have nothing to use for that 6CD box set of career studio outtakes we have on the backburner for 2014." This whole business of putting yourself in the artist's mind and stating with near certainty what their frame of mind was regarding any given release is arrogant and logically fallacious. Really. If you're not in the band, or part of the band's circle, you're blowing smoke out your ass. Do you really think they listened to everything? Actually, what I am saying is that compared to almost all of their contemporaries, their reissues (not the huge limited box sets) are pretty spartan. So were they being lazy? Maybe the band wasn't, but they certainly didn't offer much for anybody who didn't feel like paying a lot of money. Compare the basic reissues with those of any of their contemporaries, or anything that is out there right now (in particular, The Cure, Sonic Youth and Pavement reissues...all fantastic and comprehensive). They don't have to go the extra mile, but it wouldn't have hurt. The only way this makes sense is if they wanted the releases to be single-disc so they would cost less, but even so...it's still spartan. Kevin Davis wrote: I think there's some major selective amnesia going on in regards to Pearl Jam's fan-friendliness. I can't believe no one remembers how many threads there used to be on various boards about how Ten needed to be remixed and bereft of all its early 90's reverb. Then it happens, RM strikes back with its almighty barrage of "meh"s, and it turns into "OMG IT'S LIKE PEARL JAM DOESN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THEIR FANS!!" Seriously? I never cared about getting Ten remastered, and the remastered version doesn't do a thing for me. No, I think the complaints about Pearl Jam's fan-friendly nature going sour have a pretty legitimate grounding. Charging $75 a ticket is a pretty good starter. I could care less about the reissues - that's the thing that pisses me off. Doubling the price of your fan club for less in return is another thing. The incessant "Pearl Jam has teamed with X manufacturer of goods we like" is a third. Never playing Seattle anymore is a fourth. Whatever they want to do about reissues, or bootlegs, or merchandise doesn't really matter to me that much. I'm not sure I would care if they stopped releasing bootlegs at this point. But I do care when they go on tour and it costs double what it cost just 8 years ago, and when the fan club singles arrive late in the following year, and when they do a 20th anniversary tour and don't even bother to play their hometown. Can we talk about the Smashing Pumpkins reissues again? I'm really, really curious what will be on the Pisces Iscariot reissue.

Author:	matt reeder [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
J's Brain wrote: The bonus discs are fucking fantastic. I have a feeling these barely scratch the surface of what Billy recorded back in the early 90s... they probably could have put out a 4 disc set for each album like the Achtung Baby reissue! That is true. For Gish, he avoided including some of the early demos since he wants to release a box set with them in the spring. For Siamese Dream, I get the impression he avoided including some of the Quiet and Other Songs demo (which features two completely unknown tracks, early versions of most of SD and REALLY early versions of "Meladori Magpie" and "Set The Ray To Jerry", songs which wouldn't be released until 1996) either because he knows fans already have it or because he wants to release a set of SD demos in the same way as the Gish demos. What I'm really salivating over is the idea of a release of Mellon Collie demos. Remember, the band wrote about 75 songs for MCIS, plus all the various riffage in the "Pastichio Medley". Oh, and I'm also really stoked for a reunited Machina double disc, fully remastered as promised. So far so good with the reissues.

Author:	southp [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
+1 on wanting an official release of Machina II. I love that (non) album.

Red Mosquito http://archive.theskyiscrape.com/

Smashing Pumpkins Reissues 2011 - http://archive.theskyiscrape.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=96184	Page 3 of 15

Author:	glorifiedG in AZ [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
Could we finally see a DVD of the Metro Show on the Machina reissue? That's what I'm really looking forward too, along with MCIS release.

Author:	columbus decanter [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
I'm hoping that for the DVD addition to MCIS, it'll be one of the Double Door shows or maybe the Rivera show in '95. I know MTV filmed one of these. Watch.. we'll probably end up with the Rockpalast show, which we all have seen already..

Author:	FloydTheBarber [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
I had forgotten just how good Gish is. So meandering and dreamy.

Author:	southp [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
After reading the comments here I downloaded the 24/96 files. Looking forward to a uninterrupted listen at high volumes!

Author:	Kevin Davis [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
FloydTheBarber wrote: I had forgotten just how good Gish is. So meandering and dreamy. I love Gish. Even though I was a Pumpkins fan through the '90's, it wasn't really until 2006-7 or so that I really got Gish. To me, the Pumpkins from 1991-1994 represent a kind of creative watermark for 90's rock, really pushing the boundaries of what a guitars-bass-drums format could do within the context of the alt-rock format. Everything from "Siva" to "Today" to "Bye June" to "French Movie Theme" to "Frail and Bedazzled" really paints a complete picture of a band in full bloom. Mellon Collie and the Aeroplane stuff is great, too, and represents a similarly astounding creative outpouring, but to me it feels somewhat different--those first three years were a real glorious noise.

Author:	matt reeder [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
I love you Kevin Davis. I feel the same way, though I have a similar love for the MCIS years, particularly the 1994 demos and the very end of the MCIS tour in 1997 where they really started to take everything to a new level. Listening to the Gish remaster right now - it's stunning. They managed to make it louder without sacrificing the dynamics. It sounds better than I could possibly have imagined. But I'm really, really stoked about the Siamese reissue. Oh, and since the company handling these reissues via the official store screwed up the order (I didn't get it until today), we get something bonus from Billy totally free. I'm curious what it will be, but my best guess will be a limited edition 45 of something from the SPRC. Woot!

Author:	resonance of distance [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
Yeah, i re bought both these cds this week. Gish was 6.99 used at Record and tape traders, and Siamese Dream was 3 at goodwill. thats all ill pay for these. none of this remasterd ie LOUDER shit. those albums are already loud as fuck.

Author:	Kevin Davis [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
Mellon Collie is one of the few albums that I legitimately have difficulty listening to--not because it isn't great, but because it's so linked to a singular time in my life that playing it independent of those circumstances feels almost intolerably sad. There are few, if any, other albums I'd say that about, that mean so much to me but that I play so infrequently.

Author:	zeb [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
That album is chock full o' bittersweet.

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Author:	zoe1271 [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
I've said it before; I'll say it again. The 24/96 hi-res versions of these reissues sound AMAZING. I'm cranking Siva right now - one of the best rock songs of the 90's. This is the tune that got me hooked. I saw the video late night on MTV 120 Minutes and Billy's "yeah" possessed me until I bought the tape.

Author:	Soma. [ Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
BC should've worked on this instead of TheFutureEmbrace. A little late for me

Author:	VinylGuy [ Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
how are the dvds? are they pro shot ?

Author:	matt reeder [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
VinylGuy wrote: how are the dvds? are they pro shot ? Multi-cam pro-shots with soundboard audio. They're gorgeous. An example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aGY-FcY ... re=related

Author:	theplatypus [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
matt reeder wrote: VinylGuy wrote: how are the dvds? are they pro shot ? Multi-cam pro-shots with soundboard audio. They're gorgeous. An example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aGY-FcY ... re=related

Author:	matt reeder [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Smashing Pumpkins to reissue Gish and Siamese Dream 11/29/11
Listening to the instrumental mix of "Soma" now. This might be my favorite song ever. Good God Almighty.