4. The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."
6. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.
9. Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.
12. Diebold employed 5 convicted felons as senior managers and developers to help write the central compiler computer code that counted 50% of the votes in 30 states.
13. Jeff Dean, Diebold's Senior Vice-President and senior programmer on Diebold's central compiler code, was convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree.
14. Diebold Senior Vice-President Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.
16. California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it! (See the movie here)
20. Serious voting anomalies in Florida -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.
_________________ "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." -Noam Chomsky
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
barefeet222 wrote:
Some interesting statements, but the bottom line is that people who didn't want Bush reelected need to get over it. It's over with. Bush won.
That's easy for you to say.
Would you continue to feel that way if all of these 2+2's ended up adding up to 4? If there were discovered a smoking gun on, let's say #14 above, would you still think we need to just get over it? Really?
--PunkDavid
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:36 am Posts: 3556 Location: Twin Ports
It is entertaining to consider these things to be true, and some may even have an amount of truth to them. Even if there were fraud, and victory could be declared for Kerry, it would hardly be a mandate for him.
The overwhelming truth of the election was this: The democrats need to do a far better job of relating to the American public and communicating their ideas. I think it is high time there is a paradigm shift within the party regarding its policies, beliefs, and practices that must either change or become far more concise. They need to distance themselves from being referred to as the party of taxation, socialism, and no morals. If they believe their message is right and true, they have done a poor job of communicating it to the American people. The democratic movement is percieved as forming a bloated government funded with heavy taxation, ineffective social welfare, weak defense, and an anything-goes mentality when it comes to moral. If the democrats are to become a relevant political force within the next decade, I would say that difficult but necessary changes must occur.
I would advocate a party platform change that looks to service both the individual as well as the society. The employer as well as the union. The environment as well as the manufacturer. The diplomat as well as the defender. The teacher as well as the student. The hard working as well as the unemployed. A strong stance and yet also a strong belief in communication, unity, and compromise where necessary.
_________________ Rising and falling at force ten
We twist the world
And ride the wind
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
tsunami wrote:
It is entertaining to consider these things to be true, and some may even have an amount of truth to them. Even if there were fraud, and victory could be declared for Kerry, it would hardly be a mandate for him.
The overwhelming truth of the election was this: The democrats need to do a far better job of relating to the American public and communicating their ideas. I think it is high time there is a paradigm shift within the party regarding its policies, beliefs, and practices that must either change or become far more concise. They need to distance themselves from being referred to as the party of taxation, socialism, and no morals. If they believe their message is right and true, they have done a poor job of communicating it to the American people. The democratic movement is percieved as forming a bloated government funded with heavy taxation, ineffective social welfare, weak defense, and an anything-goes mentality when it comes to moral. If the democrats are to become a relevant political force within the next decade, I would say that difficult but necessary changes must occur.
I would advocate a party platform change that looks to service both the individual as well as the society. The employer as well as the union. The environment as well as the manufacturer. The diplomat as well as the defender. The teacher as well as the student. The hard working as well as the unemployed. A strong stance and yet also a strong belief in communication, unity, and compromise where necessary.
That's all well and good. But if the vote is rigged, the Democrats could run Jesus Christ himself on a platform of eternal salvation for all, and he'd lose. Well, maybe Jesus would win, but you get the point.
--PunkDavid
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:36 am Posts: 3556 Location: Twin Ports
punkdavid wrote:
tsunami wrote:
It is entertaining to consider these things to be true, and some may even have an amount of truth to them. Even if there were fraud, and victory could be declared for Kerry, it would hardly be a mandate for him.
The overwhelming truth of the election was this: The democrats need to do a far better job of relating to the American public and communicating their ideas. I think it is high time there is a paradigm shift within the party regarding its policies, beliefs, and practices that must either change or become far more concise. They need to distance themselves from being referred to as the party of taxation, socialism, and no morals. If they believe their message is right and true, they have done a poor job of communicating it to the American people. The democratic movement is percieved as forming a bloated government funded with heavy taxation, ineffective social welfare, weak defense, and an anything-goes mentality when it comes to moral. If the democrats are to become a relevant political force within the next decade, I would say that difficult but necessary changes must occur.
I would advocate a party platform change that looks to service both the individual as well as the society. The employer as well as the union. The environment as well as the manufacturer. The diplomat as well as the defender. The teacher as well as the student. The hard working as well as the unemployed. A strong stance and yet also a strong belief in communication, unity, and compromise where necessary.
That's all well and good. But if the vote is rigged, the Democrats could run Jesus Christ himself and he'd lose. Well, maybe Jesus would win, but you get the point.
--PunkDavid
I understand what you're saying PD, but I don't think they would be able to cover up or change an obviously large victory for the opposition party.
What I am saying is that it is far better to win and win by a large amount, than to attack the system and cry foul in a reactionary way.
The key is to win!
What really burns me, is that there were voter problems in 2000, and apparently not enough was done in four years to correct them. If there are problems, then we need to fix them.
_________________ Rising and falling at force ten
We twist the world
And ride the wind
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tsunami wrote:
What really burns me, is that there were voter problems in 2000, and apparently not enough was done in four years to correct them. If there are problems, then we need to fix them.
See, this is just it. These problems were purposely NOT fixed. Because the party that benefits from them not being fixed won. As you so clearly stated:
tsunami wrote:
The key is to win!
But if you can properly rig any State to go which way you want. You simply need to cover it up fast enough and hope the "Liberal" Media doesn't cover any of it. So that it all goes away quickly, and people will say weeks and months later when blatant criminal activity has taken place:
Random RMer wrote:
Quit bitching, it's over. Bush won.
_________________ "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." -Noam Chomsky
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:36 am Posts: 3556 Location: Twin Ports
I hear what you are saying IEB, and I too am not happy about voter fraud. What I think is important is that the democrats look into the fraud but also look into how they can make their party better at the same time. The future is what is important, and if they continuously occupy themselves with the past two elections, nothing will change.
Fix the system but also fix the party.
If they don't, they will lose on both accounts.
_________________ Rising and falling at force ten
We twist the world
And ride the wind
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:21 pm Posts: 362 Location: Red Sox Nation via AZ
punkdavid wrote:
That's all well and good. But if the vote is rigged, the Democrats could run Jesus Christ himself on a platform of eternal salvation for all, and he'd lose. Well, maybe Jesus would win, but you get the point.
--PunkDavid
_________________ "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
-Hunter S. Thompson
RIP 1937-2005
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:52 pm Posts: 1727 Location: Earth Gender: Male
tsunami wrote:
I hear what you are saying IEB, and I too am not happy about voter fraud. What I think is important is that the democrats look into the fraud but also look into how they can make their party better at the same time. The future is what is important, and if they continuously occupy themselves with the past two elections, nothing will change.
Fix the system but also fix the party.
If they don't, they will lose on both accounts.
I completely agree, that the Democrats need to do some re-evaluating. Personally I agree with this, not being a Democrat, I see where they go wrong all over the place.
But do they really need a new party platform? If it were to be proven that Bush won do to millions of votes going to him who were either voting for Kerry, were Dead, etc. Do they really need to readjust? Or do they simply need to have control over the counting of the votes and the machines they are done on. "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."
_________________ "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." -Noam Chomsky
Post subject: Re: 20 Amazing Facts About Voting in America
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:37 am
Force of Nature
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:10 am Posts: 701
IEB! wrote:
16. California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it! (See the movie here)
2. There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
Wow.
No offense, but I'm glad that no such authority exists.
Wow.
No offense, but what? I can understand states handling their own local elections, but the presidential election is national, and, therefore, rigid national standards should apply - not the willy-nilly "standards" that are in force today.
_________________ I'm feelin' like a preacher wavin' a gun around....
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