Disgruntled soldiers put Rumsfeld on the spot
Robert Burns, Associated Press
December 8, 2004 RUMSFELD1209



CAMP BUEHRING, Kuwait -- Disgrunted U.S. soldiers complained to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld today about the lack of armor for their vehicles and long deployments, drawing a blunt retort from the Pentagon chief.

``You go to war with the Army you have,'' he said in a rare public airing of rank-and-file concerns among the troops.

In his prepared remarks earlier, Rumsfeld had urged the troops - mostly National Guard and Reserve soldiers - to discount critics of the war in Iraq and to help ``win the test of wills'' with the insurgents.

Some of soldiers, however, had criticisms of their own - not of the war itself but of how it is being fought.

Army Spc. Thomas Wilson, for example, of the 278th Regimental Combat Team that is comprised mainly of citizen soldiers of the Tennessee Army National Guard, asked Rumsfeld in a question-and-answer session why vehicle armor is still in short supply, nearly two years after the start of the war that ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

``Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?'' Wilson asked. A big cheer arose from the approximately 2,300 soldiers in the cavernous hangar who assembled to see and hear the secretary of defense.

Rumsfeld hesitated and asked Wilson to repeat his question.

``We do not have proper armored vehicles to carry with us north,'' Wilson said after asking again.

Rumsfeld replied that troops should make the best of the conditions they face and said the Army was pushing manufacturers of vehicle armor to produce it as fast as humanly possible.

And, the defense chief added, armor is not always a savior in the kind of combat U.S. troops face in Iraq, where the insurgents' weapon of choice is the roadside bomb, or improvised explosive device that has killed and maimed hundreds, if not thousands, of American troops since the summer of 2003.

``You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up,'' Rumsfeld said.

Asked later about Wilson's complaint, the deputy commanding general of U.S. forces in Kuwait, Maj. Gen. Gary Speer, said in an interview that as far as he knows, every vehicle that is deploying to Iraq from Camp Buehring in Kuwait has at least ``Level 3'' armor. That means it at least has locally fabricated armor for its side panels, but not necessarily bulletproof windows or protection against explosions that penetrate the floorboard.

Speer said he was not aware that soldiers were searching landfills for scrap metal and used bulletproof glass.

During the question-and-answer session, another soldier complained that active-duty Army units sometimes get priority over the National Guard and Reserve units for the best equipment in Iraq.

``There's no way I can prove it, but I am told the Army is breaking its neck to see that there is not'' discrimination against the National Guard and Reserve in terms of providing equipment, Rumsfeld said.

Yet another soldier asked, without putting it to Rumsfeld as a direct criticism, how much longer the Army will continue using its ``stop loss'' power to prevent soldiers from leaving the service who are otherwise eligible to retire or quit.

Rumsfeld said that this condition was simply a fact of life for soldiers at time of war.

``It's basically a sound principle, it's nothing new, it's been well understood'' by soldiers, he said. ``My guess is it will continue to be used as little as possible, but that it will continue to be used.''

In his opening remarks, Rumsfeld stressed that soldiers who are heading to Iraq should not believe those who say the insurgents cannot be defeated or who otherwise doubt the will of the military to win.

``They say we can't prevail. I see that violence and say we must win,'' Rumsfeld said

What an asshole, they should drive him through Baghdad in one of those 'armored' vehicles and see if he agrees to it!

wow, considering Rummy never has to ride through the hot zone he's pretty bold there talking to soldiers.

He should be assuring them that everything possible will be done to insure they get at least plate armor for the floorboards as IED's are the greatest danger to troops. Ballistic glass is to expensive to go on every vehicle however all troops should have some form of ballistic body armor as well.

Rumsfeld is a piece of shit

Rumsfeld is all dick and no balls.

--PunkDavid

Howdy, friend!

--PunkDavid

The quote I love best in that article is when he says, "If you think about it, you could have a tank covered in armor and it can still be blown up."

I mean, did he really fucking say that?

That's like saying "you could have a flak jacket on or off but you still could get shot in the chest"

Well no shit but don't you think it would help. I bet Rummy drove there in his bulletproof limo.

FYI - military guys I know, 100% of them, Republican. 100% of them, hate Rumsfeld.

Yeah that seems to be the commen consensus from miltary people i know. they are all diehard republicans but absolutley hate and distrust rumsfield.
Its amazing that of all the cabinet members to resign or be forced to resign rumsfield wasnt one of them. This guy is most definitley a piece of shit.

These two eloquent comments must be reiterated by me in one post:

Perhaps, just perhaps, we shouldn't have gone to war w/ the army we have if were unprepared for war.

Wasn't it preached to us that we have the strongest, most prepared military in the world? Come to find out that our troops aren't prepared for the combat that everybody knew they would face. That's poor planning and preparation...something that seems to be rampant in this administration. But that's just my opinion.

I saw a great documentary about Rumsfeld on Sundance Channel a few weeks ago, damned if I can remember the title right now. Anyway, one of the themes in the film was about how at various times in our nation's history, the Pentagon has had a power struggle between the civilians and the military leaders. Colin Powell was instrumental in bringing the military side to prominence in the 1980's for example. Rumsfeld has been on a mission to put the civilians, specifically the neo-con ideologues with little or no military experience, back in control of Defense. The military brass understandably doesn't like this, and that sentiment is reflected throughout virtually everyone in the military who has any concept of how the command structure works.

--PunkDavid

PBS Frontline aired this particular documentary as well. I think it basically showed that while Rumsfeld's idea of a smaller, highly equiped, and more mobile military force (such as the special forces) is a good idea on paper, it has not come to fruition in most (or nearly all) combat situations. While some success was gained using this method in Afghanistan, it has not been as successful in Iraq (taking more time than originally thought). Powell, and those with experience in Vietnam, pushed for overwhelming force or the use of a large number of troops and equipment, with clear plans for avoiding overextension and emphasizing concise exit plans. Such a plan was at work in the first Gulf War.

Did anyone think that was insulting of him? How dare he say that as someone in a safe position, to someone who *could* get blown up? I saw him say that on CNN. I mean its like 'don't bother trying to make your vehicles safer'. I guess its true, but that's not the thing to say to soldiers out doing the job.

Neocons piss me off.