Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
John Stockton
Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Isiah Thomas
Gary Payton
Jason Kidd
Maurice Cheeks
Lenny Wilkens
Tim Hardaway
Bob Cousy
Kevin Johnson
Nate Archibald
Dennis Johnson
Walt Frazier
He's not as good as any of those 14 guys, for starters.
John Stockton Magic Johnson Oscar Robertson Isiah Thomas Gary Payton Jason Kidd Maurice Cheeks Lenny Wilkens Tim Hardaway Bob Cousy Kevin Johnson Nate Archibald Dennis Johnson Walt Frazier
He's not as good as any of those 14 guys, for starters.
I agree with that list...except for maybe KJ and Hardaway. I'd have to think about those two...
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:05 am Posts: 1003 Location: somebody else's sky
Peeps wrote:
kj alone for his dunk on mark eaton(?)
plus, just about all those pg were a smidge better on the defensive end
You're thinking of the dunk over Olajuwan.
Everyone on that list beginning with Wilkins is not better than Nash. Nash runs the offense as well as anyone ever has, and he has back-to-back MVPs to show for it.
plus, just about all those pg were a smidge better on the defensive end
You're thinking of the dunk over Olajuwan.
Everyone on that list beginning with Wilkins is not better than Nash. Nash runs the offense as well as anyone ever has, and he has back-to-back MVPs to show for it.
in the NBA, more than any other sport, you're judged on rings. Nash hasn't even made it to the finals.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
plus, just about all those pg were a smidge better on the defensive end
You're thinking of the dunk over Olajuwan.
Everyone on that list beginning with Wilkins is not better than Nash. Nash runs the offense as well as anyone ever has, and he has back-to-back MVPs to show for it.
thats right, it was baseline, wasnt it?
if you think magic, thomas or the big O arent better, youre insane
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
therealnod wrote:
Peeps wrote:
kj alone for his dunk on mark eaton(?)
plus, just about all those pg were a smidge better on the defensive end
You're thinking of the dunk over Olajuwan.
Everyone on that list beginning with Wilkins is not better than Nash. Nash runs the offense as well as anyone ever has, and he has back-to-back MVPs to show for it.
in the NBA, more than any other sport, you're judged on rings. Nash hasn't even made it to the finals.
I personally don't understand what all the clamor about rings is. Sure, playoff experience is an important part of a player's resume, but some players simply have not had the right supporting cast. Surely, the Suns would make it further into the playoffs this year with a healthy Kurt Thomas and Amare Stoudemire, so would that make Steve Nash a better player?
Is Robert Horry one of the best players in the league because he's always been on the right team? I think some analysts get correlation mistaken for causation.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:05 am Posts: 1003 Location: somebody else's sky
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
therealnod wrote:
Peeps wrote:
kj alone for his dunk on mark eaton(?)
plus, just about all those pg were a smidge better on the defensive end
You're thinking of the dunk over Olajuwan.
Everyone on that list beginning with Wilkins is not better than Nash. Nash runs the offense as well as anyone ever has, and he has back-to-back MVPs to show for it.
in the NBA, more than any other sport, you're judged on rings. Nash hasn't even made it to the finals.
I personally don't understand what all the clamor about rings is. Sure, playoff experience is an important part of a player's resume, but some players simply have not had the right supporting cast. Surely, the Suns would make it further into the playoffs this year with a healthy Kurt Thomas and Amare Stoudemire, so would that make Steve Nash a better player?
Is Robert Horry one of the best players in the league because he's always been on the right team? I think some analysts get correlation mistaken for causation.
If we base a best of the best list on rings, John Salley would be near the top.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
therealnod wrote:
Peeps wrote:
kj alone for his dunk on mark eaton(?)
plus, just about all those pg were a smidge better on the defensive end
You're thinking of the dunk over Olajuwan.
Everyone on that list beginning with Wilkins is not better than Nash. Nash runs the offense as well as anyone ever has, and he has back-to-back MVPs to show for it.
Tim Hardaway
Bob Cousy
Kevin Johnson
Nate Archibald
Dennis Johnson
Walt Frazier
None of those guys are better than Nash? I'm fuzzy about your sense of history.
KJ smokes him in virtually every statistical category. So does Cousy, Archibald, Frazier..
Maybe not DJ but he was certainly better defensively and the offensive #s are close.
plus, just about all those pg were a smidge better on the defensive end
You're thinking of the dunk over Olajuwan.
Everyone on that list beginning with Wilkins is not better than Nash. Nash runs the offense as well as anyone ever has, and he has back-to-back MVPs to show for it.
in the NBA, more than any other sport, you're judged on rings. Nash hasn't even made it to the finals.
I personally don't understand what all the clamor about rings is. Sure, playoff experience is an important part of a player's resume, but some players simply have not had the right supporting cast. Surely, the Suns would make it further into the playoffs this year with a healthy Kurt Thomas and Amare Stoudemire, so would that make Steve Nash a better player?
Is Robert Horry one of the best players in the league because he's always been on the right team? I think some analysts get correlation mistaken for causation.
If we base a best of the best list on rings, John Salley would be near the top.
nobody is saying you "base the list" on rings alone....it's merely another way to compare the elite players to one another. The numbers will tell you guys like Barkley/Malone/Ewing are first ballot HOFer's, but their inability to win it all is what separates them from guys like Magic/Jordan/Bird/Olajuwon etc.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
Sure, playoff experience is an important part of a player's resume, but some players simply have not had the right supporting cast.Surely, the Suns would make it further into the playoffs this year with a healthy Kurt Thomas and Amare Stoudemire, so would that make Steve Nash a better player?
hard to say considering they're still playing. And they had Amare last year and the Spurs still won in 5. I don't think KT makes up the difference.
Quote:
Is Robert Horry one of the best players in the league because he's always been on the right team? I think some analysts get correlation mistaken for causation.
I think some analysts tend to overrate the "latest big thing" and fail to put things in historical context.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
Sure, playoff experience is an important part of a player's resume, but some players simply have not had the right supporting cast.Surely, the Suns would make it further into the playoffs this year with a healthy Kurt Thomas and Amare Stoudemire, so would that make Steve Nash a better player?
hard to say considering they're still playing. And they had Amare last year and the Spurs still won in 5. I don't think KT makes up the difference.
Last year they didn't have Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, and an improved Leandro Barbosa. I don't think anyone in their right mind would take last year's Suns team over this year's (healthy) roster. But a comparison to last year wasn't really my point; I was simply stating that Nash's odds are better if he's got a healthy frontcourt. Hard to deny that.
Quote:
Quote:
Is Robert Horry one of the best players in the league because he's always been on the right team? I think some analysts get correlation mistaken for causation.
I think some analysts tend to overrate the "latest big thing" and fail to put things in historical context.
Well, obviously there's a balance. But it's really quite ridiculous to suggest that a spectacular player who's brought his team deep into the playoffs doesn't have as good a legacy simply because he didn't have the right pieces around him.
Quote:
nobody is saying you "base the list" on rings alone....it's merely another way to compare the elite players to one another. The numbers will tell you guys like Barkley/Malone/Ewing are first ballot HOFer's, but their inability to win it all is what separates them from guys like Magic/Jordan/Bird/Olajuwon etc.
Right, to the extent that those players actually had any control whether they won it all or not. Take Barkley, for example. You could make a case that he would've won it all had he not choked away a 3-1 WCSF lead in 1995, and therefore he's not on the same level as those other guys. However, if you were to consider why Kevin Johnson never won a ring, you couldn't help but notice that he might have had one in 1995 if Charles Barkley didn't choke away the 3-1 lead. Some players are so spectacular that, given a decent supporting cast, they can't help but win a title, but those on the next tier down may or may not win titles depending on who they're teamed up with.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:15 pm Posts: 25452 Location: Under my wing like Sanford & Son Gender: Male
I was crushed, CRUSHED when Dallas traded him away, but I guess it was for the best. He's still one of my favorite players, even when we have to play the Suns. Yeah, those guys are probably better, but Nash is great in his own right. I also admire the fact that he actually has political opinions and isn't afraid to voice them. You have to love a smart/involved athlete.
_________________ Now that god no longer exists, the desire for another world still remains.
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