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 Post subject: lawmaker: Marines killed Iraqis in cold blood
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:04 am 
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Lawmaker: Marines killed Iraqis ‘in cold blood’

WASHINGTON - A Pentagon probe into the death of Iraqi civilians last November in the Iraqi city of Haditha will show that U.S. Marines "killed innocent civilians in cold blood," a U.S. lawmaker said Wednesday.

From the beginning, Iraqis in the town of Haditha said U.S. Marines deliberately killed 15 unarmed Iraqi civilians, including seven women and three children.

One young Iraqi girl said the Marines killed six members of her family, including her parents. “The Americans came into the room where my father was praying,” she said, “and shot him.”
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On Wednesday, Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said the accounts are true.

Military officials told NBC News that the Marine Corps' own evidence appears to show Murtha is right.

A videotape taken by an Iraqi showed the aftermath of the alleged attack: a blood-smeared bedroom floor and bits of what appear to be human flesh and bullet holes on the walls.

The video, obtained by Time magazine, was broadcast a day after town residents told The Associated Press that American troops entered homes on Nov. 19 and shot dead 15 members of two families, including a 3-year-old girl, after a roadside bomb killed a U.S. Marine.

On Nov. 20, U.S. Marines spokesman Capt. Jeffrey Pool issued a statement saying that on the previous day a roadside bomb had killed 15 civilians and a Marine. In a later gunbattle, U.S. and Iraqi troops killed eight insurgents, he said.

U.S. military officials later confirmed that the version of events was wrong.

Murtha, a vocal opponent of the war in Iraq, said at a news conference Wednesday that sources within the military have told him that an internal investigation will show that "there was no firefight, there was no IED (improvised explosive device) that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."

Military officials say Marine Corp photos taken immediately after the incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity because the investigation hasn't been completed.

One military official says it appears the civilians were deliberately killed by the Marines, who were outraged at the death of their fellow Marine.

“This one is ugly," one official told NBC News.

Three Marine officers — commanders in Haditha — have been relieved of duty, and at least 12 Marines in all are under investigation for what would be the worst single incident involving the deliberate killing of civilians by U.S. military in Iraq.

The Marine Corps issued a statement in response to Murtha's remarks:

"There is an ongoing investigation; therefore, any comment at this time would be inappropriate and could undermine the investigatory and possible legal process. As soon as the facts are known and decisions on future actions are made, we will make that information available to the public to the fullest extent allowable."

Murtha held the news conference to mark six months since his initial call for "redeployment" of U.S. forces from Iraq.

He said U.S. forces were under undue pressure in Iraq because of poor planning and allocation of resources by the Bush administration.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:07 am 
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Not too surprised. Atrocities like this always happen in war, disgustingly enough.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:13 am 
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Green Habit wrote:
Not too surprised. Atrocities like this always happen in war, disgustingly enough.

yep - put young men and women under constant assault from the worst kind of enemy - the one you can't tell from everyone else - and sooner or later someone is going to snap.

something to be said for the fact that our military and society recoil in disgust at this type of action, while our enemies revel in it.

very disturbing.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:19 am 
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This is one of those events that illustrate why Sherman was so right when he stated "War is Hell". These are young kids going into such a terrible situation, you wonder how a majority of them manage not to break down.
Goes to show how movies like Apocalypse Now and Jarhead can be very realistic.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:23 am 
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likeatab wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Not too surprised. Atrocities like this always happen in war, disgustingly enough.

yep - put young men and women under constant assault from the worst kind of enemy - the one you can't tell from everyone else - and sooner or later someone is going to snap.

something to be said for the fact that our military and society recoil in disgust at this type of action, while our enemies revel in it.

very disturbing.


I find it disturbing that you seem to be sympathizing with them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:34 am 
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meatwad wrote:
I find it disturbing that you seem to be sympathizing with them.



Thats exactly what he meant by:
likeatab wrote:
our military and society recoil in disgust at this type of action


Saying that its likely to happen does not mean that he is justifying it.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:45 am 
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meatwad wrote:
likeatab wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Not too surprised. Atrocities like this always happen in war, disgustingly enough.

yep - put young men and women under constant assault from the worst kind of enemy - the one you can't tell from everyone else - and sooner or later someone is going to snap.

something to be said for the fact that our military and society recoil in disgust at this type of action, while our enemies revel in it.

very disturbing.


I find it disturbing that you seem to be sympathizing with them.

i find it very disturbing you seem to lack basic reading skills.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:00 am 
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I'm not defending any troops who have killed in cold blood-- that's an atrocious, horrible thing and the people who did that are murderers, but a lot of posters on this board seem to revel in bashing America and seem a little too eager to jump on anything that makes their own country look evil. I don't necessarily adhere to "my country, right or wrong" but at the same time, I don't have this antipathy towars the U.S. that a lot of guys have on this board.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:09 am 
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likeatab wrote:
meatwad wrote:
likeatab wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Not too surprised. Atrocities like this always happen in war, disgustingly enough.

yep - put young men and women under constant assault from the worst kind of enemy - the one you can't tell from everyone else - and sooner or later someone is going to snap.

something to be said for the fact that our military and society recoil in disgust at this type of action, while our enemies revel in it.

very disturbing.


I find it disturbing that you seem to be sympathizing with them.

i find it very disturbing you seem to lack basic reading skills.


i find it disturbing that you used this as an opportunity to turn this back around on iraqis using broad generalizations.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:03 am 
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bullet proof wrote:
likeatab wrote:
meatwad wrote:
likeatab wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Not too surprised. Atrocities like this always happen in war, disgustingly enough.

yep - put young men and women under constant assault from the worst kind of enemy - the one you can't tell from everyone else - and sooner or later someone is going to snap.

something to be said for the fact that our military and society recoil in disgust at this type of action, while our enemies revel in it.

very disturbing.


I find it disturbing that you seem to be sympathizing with them.

i find it very disturbing you seem to lack basic reading skills.


i find it disturbing that you used this as an opportunity to turn this back around on iraqis using broad generalizations.


Y'all are trying ever so hard to jump all over likeatab for no reason. "broad generalizations"? Stating that the insurgency operates from within the general population is a broad generalization? No, I'd say its a clear trend. I have heard very little of uniformed insurgents who are quartered in barracks, but I could be mistaken. Is it unfair to categorize the insurgency as such? Your claim is completley without merit, but perhaps you just assume that likeatab loves massacres of brown people just because he's right of center.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:08 am 
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Considering that what we're doing in the world today was in the name of protecting your middle-class lifestyles, which are so great and valuable and noble and proud, it doesn't surprise me that people ever supported the war (or still support it) to begin with depsite the thousands upon thousands of innocent people killed (so you can continue to buy SUVs and big screen TVs).

God bless the U.S. and the Marine Corps.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:34 am 
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glorified_version wrote:
Considering that what we're doing in the world today was in the name of protecting your middle-class lifestyles, which are so great and valuable and noble and proud, it doesn't surprise me that people ever supported the war (or still support it) to begin with depsite the thousands upon thousands of innocent people killed (so you can continue to buy SUVs and big screen TVs).

God bless the U.S. and the Marine Corps.


first, its not just middle class lifestyles, im pretty sure the armed forces are to protect all social classes, but hey, thats what broad generalizations are about, right?

secondly, the folks who did this are idiots and are using a situation that is beyond stressful to let loose with their demented urges in a place they feel they can get away with it. odds are eventually they would have done something here in the states, which im sure you would have been happier with since it would of cut down the number of "mindless" americans everyone on this board so despises

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:05 am 
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Peeps wrote:
secondly, the folks who did this are idiots and are using a situation that is beyond stressful to let loose with their demented urges in a place they feel they can get away with it. odds are eventually they would have done something here in the states, which im sure you would have been happier with since it would of cut down the number of "mindless" americans everyone on this board so despises


What? Yeah, better to snap and kill some Iraqis then good 'ole Americans back at home right? Just another perfectly acceptable collateral of war since the ends always justify the means. Just like El Salvador, the Gulf War, Vietman, and like a million others everywhere by every country this century with favorable outcomes of genocide and murder and poverty.

Also before you take your profoundly infantile logic in a baby-smack across my cheek, in an attempt to undermine everything I just said (lol), yes, I DO think Americans should be killed by psycho marines, Jason Peoples. I think we deserve it for all the atrocities that we've committed and its finally coming back to us and in the form of our own disillusioned and deranged soldiers. Maybe your family will be the first to go...

MUAHAHAHA in your face America!!!!

:roll:


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:07 am 
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Quote:
He said U.S. forces were under undue pressure in Iraq because of poor planning and allocation of resources by the Bush administration.


i think this says it all.

and to those of you in college who don't know what major to choose: how about psychology? when the troops finally come home, we're going to have a lot of fucked up veterans in need of intense psychiatric services.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:11 am 
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kiddo wrote:
Quote:
He said U.S. forces were under undue pressure in Iraq because of poor planning and allocation of resources by the Bush administration.


i think this says it all.

and to those of you in college who don't know what major to choose: how about psychology? when the troops finally come home, we're going to have a lot of fucked up veterans in need of intense psychiatric services.


I'd say a few people here need to see psychologists. Do grown men who still get all giddy over comic books count?


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:19 am 
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glorified_version wrote:
kiddo wrote:
Quote:
He said U.S. forces were under undue pressure in Iraq because of poor planning and allocation of resources by the Bush administration.


i think this says it all.

and to those of you in college who don't know what major to choose: how about psychology? when the troops finally come home, we're going to have a lot of fucked up veterans in need of intense psychiatric services.


I'd say a few people here need to see psychologists. Do grown men who still get all giddy over comic books count?


naw, comic books are okay...at least that is reading...sort of...i think...

but anyone who has more than 5,000 posts on an internet message board should really consider being hospitalized :P

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:22 am 
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glorified_version wrote:
Peeps wrote:
secondly, the folks who did this are idiots and are using a situation that is beyond stressful to let loose with their demented urges in a place they feel they can get away with it. odds are eventually they would have done something here in the states, which im sure you would have been happier with since it would of cut down the number of "mindless" americans everyone on this board so despises


What? Yeah, better to snap and kill some Iraqis then good 'ole Americans back at home right? Just another perfectly acceptable collateral of war since the ends always justify the means. Just like El Salvador, the Gulf War, Vietman, and like a million others everywhere by every country this century with favorable outcomes of genocide and murder and poverty.

Also before you take your profoundly infantile logic in a baby-smack across my cheek, in an attempt to undermine everything I just said (lol), yes, I DO think Americans should be killed by psycho marines, Jason Peoples. I think we deserve it for all the atrocities that we've committed and its finally coming back to us and in the form of our own disillusioned and deranged soldiers. Maybe your family will be the first to go...

MUAHAHAHA in your face America!!!!

:roll:


so you are directing this towards my cousin?

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:37 am 
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Hopefully, the Marines will try and punish them appropriately.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:01 pm 
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bullet proof wrote:
likeatab wrote:
meatwad wrote:
likeatab wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Not too surprised. Atrocities like this always happen in war, disgustingly enough.

yep - put young men and women under constant assault from the worst kind of enemy - the one you can't tell from everyone else - and sooner or later someone is going to snap.

something to be said for the fact that our military and society recoil in disgust at this type of action, while our enemies revel in it.

very disturbing.


I find it disturbing that you seem to be sympathizing with them.

i find it very disturbing you seem to lack basic reading skills.


i find it disturbing that you used this as an opportunity to turn this back around on iraqis using broad generalizations.

please explain to me where you read a broad generalization involving iraqis anywhere in my statement.

jesus christ. some of you people are so blinded by your hatred for america that you really will read just about whatever you want into any statement.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:21 pm 
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glorified_version wrote:
Peeps wrote:
secondly, the folks who did this are idiots and are using a situation that is beyond stressful to let loose with their demented urges in a place they feel they can get away with it. odds are eventually they would have done something here in the states, which im sure you would have been happier with since it would of cut down the number of "mindless" americans everyone on this board so despises


What? Yeah, better to snap and kill some Iraqis then good 'ole Americans back at home right? Just another perfectly acceptable collateral of war since the ends always justify the means. Just like El Salvador, the Gulf War, Vietman, and like a million others everywhere by every country this century with favorable outcomes of genocide and murder and poverty.

Also before you take your profoundly infantile logic in a baby-smack across my cheek, in an attempt to undermine everything I just said (lol), yes, I DO think Americans should be killed by psycho marines, Jason Peoples. I think we deserve it for all the atrocities that we've committed and its finally coming back to us and in the form of our own disillusioned and deranged soldiers. Maybe your family will be the first to go...

MUAHAHAHA in your face America!!!!

:roll:


Oh really? The middle classes didn't ask for this war. We're not profiting off of it. We had TVs and SUVs before the war, and we will after the war. I didn't commit any atrocities against anyone. Neither did my parents, or my grandparents. My boyfriend is first generation in America. Do we deserve to be killed by some Marines more than an Iraqi family just because we live in America?

It's terrible what happened. And we shouldn't be over there. But what Peeps said was right - fucked up people are going to do fucked up things no matter where they're at. And it's just as awful and tragic no matter where the innocent people hurt live.

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