http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... _2004dec13

Well, that's war for ya, eh?

Nothing, huh?

War rules!

Sigh...

Like this isn't full of half truths like everything else your side has tried to pull. The whole story is right there in that article.

Yeah, it is. American soldiers committing atrocities. Young guys begging to kill other human beings. We'll have another generation of fucked up vets thanks to this stupid war.

And tell me, friend, who my fucking side is? I'm a leftie? Is that it? You don't know a fucking thing about me.

And I'd like to add---easily dismissed as hearsay, just like "your side" has done since day one.

How do you know that they're atrocities?

Let me ask you. Have ever for a moment even attempted to remove yourself from your extremely comfortable life afforded to you from servicemen of the past, and put yourself in the shoes of someone over there?

Seriously.

Because I don't think you have the slightest clue about people in the military or what they are facing over there. To just write these servicemen off like Kerry did to his fellow veterans is nothing but short sighted. Look at the enemy we are facing. They are not following the rules of war, so guess what, the rules of war do not apply to them number one. Maybe if they fought a legetimate war, we wouldn't have to shoot wounded Iraqi's. They've become masters at booby trapping bodies. Injured Iraqi guerrilla's sacrafice themselves by throwing grenades and shooting our servicemen when our servicemen TRY TO HELP THEM!

I also don't think you understand soldiers at check points. The purpose of a check point is to provide security for whatever is beyond the check point. If someone doesn't stop, you don't just let them go. You accomplish the mission, and you stop the vehicle by whatever means necessary. Yes, you do shoot first and ask questions later, becuase it saves a lot of lives.

But it's amazing how you'll point fingers at these people and call the criminals. But you would never, ever, ever, ever post an article pertaining to what our own servicemen and women are up against. You'd never post articles about our enemy perpetually breaking the rules of war, and using the Geneva Conventions to their advantage would you. You wouldn't post articles about guerrilla's hearding up entire families into ambulances and sending them at check points, rigged with bombs. You'll have none of that.

Nope, the military is full of monsters. And it's news to you when people die in war.

You're not even worth responding to.

And next time, how about reading the fucking article before acting like these guys are doe-eyed innocents that have no idea what the fuck they're doing.

During the search when Williams described sensing danger, Spec. Allen Crandall, a friend of Williams who testified under a grant of immunity, said he cut the plastic handcuffs off the smirking man, then left the room, although he sensed the shooting was imminent. Spec. Joshua R. Sickels testified that Williams reported the man's "eyes bugged out" after he had shot him a third time.

After that, the soldiers became concerned when a weapon was discovered at another house. "I figured something like that is going to happen again," Young testified.

Young said he waited outside that house as Williams took custody of another man and summoned Spec. Brent W. May, a young soldier who allegedly spoke of wanting to kill someone.

"Can I shoot this one?" May asked Williams, according to two soldiers, who also heard the gunshots that followed. An Army investigator said May took a digital photo of the corpse, labeled "evidence" in his personal computer.

Soldiers said May bragged of the killing afterward. "May looked like he was excited that he got to shoot somebody," Young testified.

If I had a dollar for everytime I rolled my eyes in disgust after reading a news article about the Iraqi situation in the past 2 years, I'd be a very rich man. But not rich neough to be able to restore my exhausted eye muscles.

And of course, that's all true, and is gospel. Because as we all know, when it comes to the war in Iraq, everything the media says is true. If I had a dollar for everytime the media reported something like this and turned out to be half the story, I'd be rich too.

Once again, read the fucking story.





Yeah, it's all hearsay, and made up conspiracies by the left wing media.


I'm done with you. You've proven yourself, through your posts here, that you're nothing but a narrow-minded idiot in denial about the realities of the situation in Iraq. Maybe one of these guys will be your neighbor someday. Then you'll fucking care.

I did read the story. I read the whole thing.

What's funny is that this time you felt like quoting the story about Staff Sargeant Horne.

Yeah, I tell you what. That blurb right there, that says THE WHOLE STORY! Everything you need to know about what happened to Staff Sargeant is Horne is RIGHT THERE IN THIS ARTICLE!

He just pleaded guilty. To what charge? What was the circumstance? Do you even know what this man did? He shouldn't be in the brig PERIOD! He was weeping for a reason. The man is not a monster.

Now you go off and find the whole story about Staff Sargeant Horne and stop reading leftist crap full of "This guy pleaded guilty to this, and this guy said that, and the military just wants to kill innocent people, pillage entire villages, steal Iraqi women, and rape their children."

Ironic. Because you take a three line blurb about Staff Sargeant Horne and believe it, take it as truth. Yet, I'm the one proving myself to be narrow minded.

You are the one who knows absolutely nothing about the military and the people within it. You have absolutely no desire to hear an opinion from someone who is a part of it. Yet I am a narrow minded idiot.

I challenged you every step of the way, and all you do is come back with three lines pertaining to each case...and believe it. You don't question it, you just swallow it hook line and sinker.

It's funny you should say that maybe they'll be my neighbor someday. Buddy, twenty of my best friends went over there and fought that war. Almost everyone that I graduated with in boot camp served over there. These people already are my neighbors. I know them, I love them, they're my comrades, my brothers. Unlike you, I know that they are just like you and me. The love, the hate war, they don't it to happen. Those of us in the military are the last people who wanted this. We're the ones who have to fight it, we're the ones losing our lives out there so that you can be an armchair general. So I'll play turn about once more with you. Maybe you'll be lucky enough to have a GWII vet as your neighbor someday. Maybe he'll tell you about the hundreds of wounded Iraqi's he saw aided by our docs. Maybe he'll tell you about the schools and hospitals he saw built. Maybe he'll tell you about the people he kept safe at night. Maybe he'll tell you about the tons and tons of food he helped distribute to starving subjugated people. Maybe he'll tell you of the horrors he witnessed too. Maybe he'll tell you how nasty the enemy over there is, how they refuse to play by the rules, and how their tactics have killed more of their own people.

But you'll just reject his tales, and call him a soldier that committed atrocities, call him a monster, call him a fucked up vet from the stupid war, brainwashed by the Bush administration.

Regardless of leftist this and right wing that, there was one very interesting statement in this article.

A quote from Gary Solis, a former Marine officer who teaches the law of war at West Point, about questioning the leadership of the units who commit crimes in that the best led units rarely commit such acts. I consider this to be an important part of the article and Solis a credible (and certainly military friendly if not right wing) source.


And that is the crux of the entire situation. We need to make sure that we have solid leadership staff in the field, who are recieving proper orders as well. War leads to chaos, but the more control a unit or army can exert over its own forces and communicate effectively, the better the situation should be. I see this tragic article as being the fault of poor leadership. As Solis said, the best led units do not commit war crimes. I want the US military to be led by the best people and I think it is time that a critical examination take place of said leadership.

In case you haven't realized, war is hell. Its illogical, destructive, it has remarkable effects on governments, cultures, and people. The right is so concerned about how the media is portraying the situation in Iraq as grim. It is grim and war is a horrible, horrible thing. To think that we had no other option but to go into Iraq and continue a cycle of violence on America's behalf is naive and foolish. History will not judge our country well if we continue this type of foul play.

I suggest you watch your back then.






Well, again, the guy in the story who was so excited to finally shoot and kill an unarmed man sure didn't seem to hate war, did he?

I'm sure its hard for these kids to figure out when its appropriate, by military standards, to kill and when it isn't. I don't think any of these particular kids should to jail. Their Crusader-in-Chief should be in jail.

Look, I fully understand that there are circumstances where this is true. The only instance of this in the story was the guy who shot the kid that was dying. That does appear to have been a "mercy killing." However, the other incidents cited in this story show young men who are excited to be able to kill someone, whether they are armed or not, and whether it is against the rules or not.

Now, someone mentioned that the bad guys aren't playing by the rules, so how can our guys be expected to? Maybe we should start kidnapping and beheading people too, eh? Maybe that would make democracy flourish in Iraq? Or maybe that will make the WMDs magically appear from their hiding places? Or maybe, that will get Bin Laden to surrender?

I hold our soldiers to higher fucking standards than terrorists. Their military leadership should too.

That's pretty disgusting. These kids aren't mature enough to be in the army. I hope they get the book thrown at them, for having no respect for HUMAN LIFE whatsoever. Fucking trigger-happy rednecks.