christians: jesus christ has already saved the world. he died for your sins. you owe him everything. one day, he will come back and take those that have been loyal to him. the world is a fine place. just be loyal to jesus, the faith, work hard, sit back and let everything run it's course. the world doesn't need to be saved -- it already has been.

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am i wrong in thinking this is an oppresive religion for those that practice it? that it was formed the way it was over the years so that some would have power over others?

are you oppressed by it?

Yes. Christianity at its heart is a religion of mercy. It's two greatest tenets are "Love God with all of your heart" and "Love thy neighbor as thyself."

what it meant is that it oppresses those than fall into its trap.

You can be "opressed" by anything. I'm of the opinion that many on this board are "opressed" by their hatred of anything having to do with religion, but that's just me.

and i suppose you could say i'm oppressed. my entire family is strict roman catholic and forced me to learn it growing up. they sheltered my childhood, which in turn shaped me. and they've pressured me to believe what they believe or feel like an outcast.

Yes, but ultimately you choose what you believe and what you want out of life. No one can tell you what to do.

this is another huge problem i have with not only christianity, but much of religion.

'we're right, you're wrong'

That's why I don't like religion too, but that's more of a product of culture than anything else. Like I said, Christinaity at it's purest form is a beautiful thing. Fred Felps is not a Christian. People who hate others are not Christians.

it's not so much hate as it's purely 'the way i live life is right, and everyone else lives wrong.'

it seems christianity provides for a lifestyle in which you shouldn't care about much because, in the end, jesus saves.

Well you have to look at it this way. Christians believe there is only one way to salvation, and if you are to love everyone, you have to want to share that with them. But like I said, real Christians share their faith out of love and do not pass judgement on others. I have met some real Christians in my life, and they are all pretty great people, even if their music sucks. You have to differentiate between people who say they follow the religion and people who have just labeled themselves that way, like Baptists.

This is untrue. If you look at the story of Jesus and his crucifixion, he basically gave the world a second chance by dying for their sins. Think of a time you almost drowned, or came close to dying in a car wreck, anything like that. The feeling of "wow, I've come through this" is the salvation that accepting Jesus provides, and his example is the example that Christians are to follow--to love and sacrifice for others. By dying for our sins, Jesus has given us all a second chance, a way to make our lives and the lives of others truly beautiful. A real Christian works as tirelessly to make the world a better place as the most staunch humanist, because ending suffering and spreadind love is their mutual goal.

Notice I've said nothing about church, as I don't like it and it's never done anything for me. But the above two quotes and the story of Jesus carry a lot of resonance for me, even being the agnostic smartass that I am.

And yes, I'm defending Chrisitianity, don't ask me why.

Jesus didn't die to give the world a "second chance". Jesus didn't die for me to live. If I survive a car crash, jesus has nothing to do with it. Atheists can survive car crashes you know. He didn't die for my sins because I don't believe in "sin". His entire life is irrelevent to me and I still won't "burn in hell".

I was making a comparison, Jesus you're dense.

Too bad he can't hear you call him that

I enjoyed the pun as well.

Imo this is an oppressive religion for the whole world. Christians indeed believe that the world doesn't need to be saved, and they have several reasons for that:

1. As you pointed out they believe that Jesus saved and still saves man. Man can't save man. We can't help our flaws, but "sins" can be forgiven as long as we worship the one true god..
2. Since they believe there's one almighty god in charge of everything they tend to have a fatalistic attitude towards life and the world.
3. And this is the most important one - they ultimately care very little about this life and this world because they believe that all the really good stuff comes in the afterlife...

From my point of view this is what true christianity really is - a destructive death cult. Sure, not everything about it is bad or wrong. There are universal values that can be found in most moral codes or concepts of ethics, and a lot in christianity (especially if you focus on Jesus) can be interpreted as various forms of love and even as life-affirmative. Some theologians will in fact tell you that love and god are the same thing.

But you don't need devine concepts for love. You don't need to believe in it. No leap of faith is required. It is there, it is real, and every normal human being can feel it. So why defend christianity? The elements that are really good about are not intrinsic to it. What is intrinsic to christianity on the other hand is definitely not worth fighting for. To the contrary, it should be fought against.

I won't comment on the church here at all. There is a whole set of different problems when you deal with the organized forms of religion. Let's just say it has a lot to do with power and control (as was suggested in the original post). Christianity in society brings with it hypocrisy and double morals. The positive sides of the belief system tend to lose their relevance...

is there anything in the bible about someone rejecting jesus' teachings? if so, how did jesus handle it?

-- i think we've all done a good job so far, but my main contention is the church. it seems the church was set up directly to hold power over those of faith. i don't know when the first church was formed, but it seems that since then it's gone all wrong for christianity. the basic tenets, for the most part, are great things to live by. but it's gone all wrong.