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 Post subject: lawyers: bush violating constitution
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:06 pm 
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205205,00.html

ABA: Bush Signing Statements Violate Constitution

Monday , July 24, 2006

WASHINGTON — President Bush's penchant for writing exceptions to laws he has just signed violates the Constitution, an American Bar Association task force says in a report highly critical of the practice.

The ABA group, which includes a one-time FBI director and former federal appeals court judge, said the president has overstepped his authority in attaching challenges to hundreds of new laws.

The attachments, known as bill signing statements, say Bush reserves a right to revise, interpret or disregard measures on national security and constitutional grounds.

"This report raises serious concerns crucial to the survival of our democracy," said the ABA's president, Michael Greco. "If left unchecked, the president's practice does grave harm to the separation of powers doctrine, and the system of checks and balances that have sustained our democracy for more than two centuries."

Some congressional leaders had questioned the practice. The task force's recommendations, being released Monday in Washington, will be presented to the 410,000-member group next month at its annual meeting in Hawaii.

ABA policymakers will decide whether to denounce the statements and encourage a legal fight over them.

The task force said the statements suggest the president will decline to enforce some laws. Bush has had more than 800 signing statement challenges, compared with about 600 signing statements combined for all other presidents, the group said.

Noel J. Francisco, a former Bush administration attorney who practices law in Washington, said the president is doing nothing unusual or inappropriate.

"Presidents have always issued signing statements," he said. "This administration believes that it should make clear ... when the Congress is getting close to the lines that our Constitution draws."

Francisco said the administration's input is part of the give and take between the branches of government. "I think it's good that the debate is taking place at a public level," he added.

White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said last month that "it's important for the president at least to express reservations about the constitutionality of certain provisions."

The ABA report said President Reagan was the first to use the statements as a strategic weapon, and that it was encouraged by then-administration lawyer Samuel Alito — now the newest Supreme Court justice.

The task force included former prosecutor Neal Sonnett of Miami; former FBI Director William Sessions; Patricia Wald, former chief judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit; former Republican Rep. Mickey Edwards; and former Reagan administration lawyer Bruce Fein; and law school professors and other lawyers.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:24 pm 
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Pffft. The only people lie more than politicians are lawyers.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:42 pm 
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I tend to agree that these signing statements undermine the system of checks and balance.

But then again, the government has been undermining federalism and the bill of rights for awhile, so it's not like the Democracy set up in the 18th century is relevant anymore anyways...

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:33 am 
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The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:00 pm 
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LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!

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No matter how dark the storm gets overhead
They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge
What about us when we're down here in it?
We gotta watch our backs


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:36 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:39 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


Yeah, now I feel a little embarrassed because I posted before I knew the facts. :oops:

_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:40 pm 
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$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


Yeah, now I feel a little embarrassed because I posted before I knew the facts. :oops:


What were you thinking?

_________________
seen it all, not at all
can't defend fucked up man
take me a for a ride before we leave...

Rise. Life is in motion...

don't it make you smile?
don't it make you smile?
when the sun don't shine? (shine at all)
don't it make you smile?

RIP


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:45 pm 
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jwfocker wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


Yeah, now I feel a little embarrassed because I posted before I knew the facts. :oops:


What were you thinking?


I just don't give people the benefit of the doubt often enough I guess. :?

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John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:39 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


see the patriot act it was step one to over ride the constituion. 1000 + page document wriiten , passed in a matter of days. constitution ? :? whats that?

the only constituion is that we have a right to die someday :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:47 am 
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Yield05 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


see the patriot act it was step one to over ride the constituion. 1000 + page document wriiten , passed in a matter of days. constitution ? :? whats that?

the only constituion is that we have a right to die someday :)

You no longer have any right to die. America needs you.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:06 am 
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$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


Yeah, now I feel a little embarrassed because I posted before I knew the facts. :oops:


People can debate whether it has been inappropriate for President Bush to exercise his Executive authority in regards to exceptions in such abundance, but in doing so is not a violation of the constitution. If lawmakers want to amend the constitution and remove this provision, then so be it. But no where is it written that a sitting President can only write "X" amount of exceptions before the constitution is violated.
This is just a witch hunt.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:46 am 
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remove what provision?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:04 pm 
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LeninFlux wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


Yeah, now I feel a little embarrassed because I posted before I knew the facts. :oops:


People can debate whether it has been inappropriate for President Bush to exercise his Executive authority in regards to exceptions in such abundance, but in doing so is not a violation of the constitution. If lawmakers want to amend the constitution and remove this provision, then so be it. But no where is it written that a sitting President can only write "X" amount of exceptions before the constitution is violated.
This is just a witch hunt.


Line-item vetos were already ruled unconstitutional, and these are basically line-item vetos.

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John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:29 pm 
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$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
jwfocker wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


Yeah, now I feel a little embarrassed because I posted before I knew the facts. :oops:


What were you thinking?


I just don't give people the benefit of the doubt often enough I guess. :?


verrrrry funny. :P

this president is a blight on our history. he has made no positive contributions to the office in 6 years, and i have no confidence that he will in the next two.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:46 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
Yield05 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


see the patriot act it was step one to over ride the constituion. 1000 + page document wriiten , passed in a matter of days. constitution ? :? whats that?

the only constituion is that we have a right to die someday :)

You no longer have any right to die. America needs you.


You really don't have the right to die when you think about it. If you have a terminal illness and find that you want a doctor to help you die, that is illegal. So the right to die is conditional. The only right we really have is to pay taxes, then pay a little more. That's it it seems. :(

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I remember doing nothing on the night Sinatra died
And the night Jeff Buckley died
And the night Kurt Cobain died
And the night John Lennon died
I remember I stayed up to watch the news with everyone


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:45 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
Yield05 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


see the patriot act it was step one to over ride the constituion. 1000 + page document wriiten , passed in a matter of days. constitution ? :? whats that?

the only constituion is that we have a right to die someday :)

You no longer have any right to die. America needs you.


ITS my BLOOOOD! .. yea they also need to eliminate the middle class and have a servant class. I suggest people look at infowars.com ... this is a message board where we respect others opinions or so called. its our duty as americans to seek the truth. the truth is we are apart of something we can change if we all pull our heads out of our collective asses. WAKE UP, DEBATE, SEEK the TRUTH.. what will it cost you? if not it will cost you and your children thier freedom.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:46 pm 
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ranting in e-minor wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Yield05 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


see the patriot act it was step one to over ride the constituion. 1000 + page document wriiten , passed in a matter of days. constitution ? :? whats that?

the only constituion is that we have a right to die someday :)

You no longer have any right to die. America needs you.


You really don't have the right to die when you think about it. If you have a terminal illness and find that you want a doctor to help you die, that is illegal. So the right to die is conditional. The only right we really have is to pay taxes, then pay a little more. That's it it seems. :(


there isnt even a law to pay INCOME TAX.. if you find the law in print show it to me. it s more like hey vito this guy didnt pay me my money go get em. Organized crime..hmmm

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Take care of all your memories .For you cannot relive them.
"Bob Dylan"


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:29 pm 
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Yield05 wrote:
ranting in e-minor wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Yield05 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


see the patriot act it was step one to over ride the constituion. 1000 + page document wriiten , passed in a matter of days. constitution ? :? whats that?

the only constituion is that we have a right to die someday :)

You no longer have any right to die. America needs you.


You really don't have the right to die when you think about it. If you have a terminal illness and find that you want a doctor to help you die, that is illegal. So the right to die is conditional. The only right we really have is to pay taxes, then pay a little more. That's it it seems. :(


there isnt even a law to pay INCOME TAX.. if you find the law in print show it to me. it s more like hey vito this guy didnt pay me my money go get em. Organized crime..hmmm


http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/friv_tax.pdf

Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but it somewhat addresses your comment. (I won't copy it, I don't want to derail this thread too much.)

_________________
I remember doing nothing on the night Sinatra died
And the night Jeff Buckley died
And the night Kurt Cobain died
And the night John Lennon died
I remember I stayed up to watch the news with everyone


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:39 pm 
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ranting in e-minor wrote:
Yield05 wrote:
ranting in e-minor wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Yield05 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
The ABA has no chance at success with this. President Bush is not violating the constitution.


you convinced me!


see the patriot act it was step one to over ride the constituion. 1000 + page document wriiten , passed in a matter of days. constitution ? :? whats that?

the only constituion is that we have a right to die someday :)

You no longer have any right to die. America needs you.


You really don't have the right to die when you think about it. If you have a terminal illness and find that you want a doctor to help you die, that is illegal. So the right to die is conditional. The only right we really have is to pay taxes, then pay a little more. That's it it seems. :(


there isnt even a law to pay INCOME TAX.. if you find the law in print show it to me. it s more like hey vito this guy didnt pay me my money go get em. Organized crime..hmmm


http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/friv_tax.pdf

Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but it somewhat addresses your comment. (I won't copy it, I don't want to derail this thread too much.)


yep, where does it say i have to pay?? . thanks :)

_________________
Take care of all your memories .For you cannot relive them.
"Bob Dylan"


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