I'm taking an Existential course this semester (Heidegger, Kierkegaard, Nietzche) and I'm curious for opinions.

Yessir.

I would also like to think that I do

To ask the question another way; Are all events in nature and the universe determined causally? If you could account for every possible variable at any given epoch, then theorectically you could predict any outcome, suggesting that events are already determined. But we also know that the observer plays a role in the outcome and can change it, by the simple act of observing it.

Quantum uncertainty. Interesting to think about. It doesnt answer the question, but it is very interesting nonetheless, especially in the context of your question.

Yeah but hasn't that possibility been accounted for in the initial determination?

Suppose cause/effect (essentially time) are human inventions and we are all just floating in some sort of in-limbo-soup.

You just reminded me of Brad Pitt in Twelve Monkeys:

"Here's my theory on that. While I was institutionalized, my brain was studied exhaustively in the guise of mental health. I was interrogated, x-rayed, studied thoroughly. Then, everything about me was entered into a computer where they created a model of my mind.

Then, using the computer model, they generated every thought I could possibly have in the next, say ten years, which they then filtered through a probability matrix to determine everything I was going to do in that period. So you see, she knew I was going to lead the Army of the Twelve Monkeys into the pages of history before it ever evenoccurred to me. She knows everything I'm ever going to do before I know it myself. How about that?"

Uncertaincy Principle people!

There is the question of whether we have free will when you consider social mores. Many a time I have had the urge to jump on stage and pie the dean of letters in the face, or try to tackle and maim my calculus teacher (an ex-Army Ranger), and do all sorts of fucked-up shit. But I can never bring myself to do it, because I know it's wrong. It's weird.

That has nothing to do with whether free will exists or not.

I don't believe in free will. We have people in the world who are far more susceptible to addictions, people who have a natural, pure capacity to control or take over a room, and people who can pick up an instrument and just play.
I think it’s an idealistic ideal and a wonderful and very human belief, but while we all have the ability ‘to do’ what we want, I think we all have and are limited by are own traits and abilities that mitigate what we can actually do and at the same time, this limitation makes us the fallible humans that we are.
What I’m saying I think is that we do have this free will, but up to a point. It’s not an absolute. Anyone can walk down the street and kill a worthless scoundrel, but the majority of us will be limited by are set of ethics or the feeling of fear. Not to mention the limits that physics tends to put on this idea.
As for the whole God issue and if a great gig in the sky is controlling us, I don't give it much thought, so in the god aspect I do believe in free will.

good call

I think some of you are not understanding what the issue of "free will" is about.

The question is whether we have ANY control over ANYTHING in the world, or whether it is ENTIRELY predetermined by everything that has come before. It is not an issue of whether we can do EVERYTHING we want, or whether we might act according to social constraints. If that is what you're talking about, then you DO believe in free will.

The question philosophers have wrestled with is whether we are actually actors in the universe or merely observers who may believe that we are actors. In the past, it was a question of whether "God's Will" controlled everything including our thoughts and actions. In the 20th centry, the question has been complicated by our understanding of quantum physics (or lack of understanding) and our realization that while some events at the microcosmic level appear to be completely dependent upon preconditions, others appear to be affected the very fact that we are observing them.

That's the deep question, but ultimately it's a religious question, because the implications are on morality and whether we can make choices about what is right and wrong, and whether it matters if we do or not.

For me, I have to begin with the religious approach. My personal experience tells me that I have free will. I may be deluded about that, and my mind certainly entertains the possibility that I may be wrong, but as far as living a life as a human being, I can see no other way to approach my life from day to day. If I determined that I have no free will, I would see no reason to do anything. I would then test my free will by spiting the universe and killing myself.

So whether it is true or not, I think it is imperative that one lives under the assumption that we do have free will.

Just based on the very little understanding right now of String theory or was it (quantum mechanics?), it seems that there is no free will and that everything is based on a huge, universal game of poker.
I can never make up my mind on this. For one, I don't believe in fate, but at the same time I don't think humans have complete control of their existence. The two ideas don't go together very well, and reading about string theory and quantum mechanics does not help.
I can never get anywhere in an argument such as this, it turns into nothing more then a stereotypical scene in which a couple of stoned hippies argue semantics.

I love the question though, and will dive into the discussion constantly.

I believe that there are certain things that are fated, but not every little detail. It's like water coming out of a faucet. It is impossible to predict the movement of every molecule in the stream, and yet there are greater forces that tend to keep the water flowing in a stream and not scattered in all directions. In the same way, I beleive that while we are able to determine the details of our lives, there are certain events that are bound to happen, in our lives, in the history of humanity, in the history of the earth and the universe.

It's sort of the opposite of the "butterfly effect". A butterfly flapping its wings in Beijing DOES NOT affect the weather in New York two weeks later, because the larger forces of the universe (be they the forces that we are aware of, or something else perhaps) absorb such minor effects and correct for them in the grand scheme of things, and very rarely amplify them into something much, much greater (although this does seem to happen on rare occasions as well). The proverbial "perfect storm" of conditions.

In any case, I believe that at the very least, randomness exists in the universe, and that not every action is predetermined. God DOES play dice with the universe, or more accurately, the universe IS dice. We can reflect on ourselves, ironically because the construction of our DNA into a creature with the capability to support a brain of sufficent ability to enable such reflection, was one of those events that I believe is fated. Not that human beings are the perfect end-all of biological evolution, but simply that biological evolution, if given the proper conditions and time, will inevitably produce more and more sophisticated and intelligent creatures, eventually ones that have the ability to think as we do. Just like Howard the Duck.

Back to the point, while we may use that power of reflection to exercise free will in our lives, there are forces at work guiding history and "fate" beyond our capability to either understand or influence. So in the end, is it all for naught? Perhaps, or perhaps God just wanted to see his creation through a zillion different eyes and we help to make that possible.

I believe in free will and I believe we are in control. If something happens that is out of our control it is the result of someone else exercising their free will. Or it is the result of gravity, or chance, or anything. Those forces do not mean we don't have free will.

I remember when I took Philosophy in college our final exam only had one word on it "Why" I wrote "Because" and turned it in. I got an A in the class but I am assuming that was the right answer.

Free will is an illusion.

so if you dont believe in free will, youre basically saying theres something else out there in control of your decisions?

Is there any difference between a universially accepted illusion and the truth?

I think our "will" is determined by our biochemistry and society's conditioning effect on our minds. But for our purposes it can assumed to be "free" because I don't think we can really convince ourselves otehrwise.

I do not agree with that assumption. Although I leave the question open, I tend to believe more on the side of the non-existance of free will. That doesnt change how I live my life. It dosnt matter to me if everything is predetermined or not, I still do not know the outcomes, and can still fully enjoy living my life.



You emphisize the word control too much. In the same way that a flower blossems on a sunny spring afternoon, you live your life. What is "controlling" the flower is simple causality. The decision had already been made when the universe began. There was no choice or control to begin with.

You'd make a great Calvinist.