http://www.gop.com/demfacts/ThenNow.aspx

On the left side you can scroll through dozens of Democrats who have completely flip-flopped regarding the Iraq War.

Great site.

flip-flopped and changed their mind are totally different things.

Exactly like "lying" and "being proven wrong later" are different things.

I call BS on the GOP.
I didn't read all the quotes. But here's their first mangled quote.
The GOP version of what Howard Dean said.


And this is the question he was ask and his actual answer.


BOB SCHIEFFER




HOWARD DEAN


As a rule I never trust quotes with ellipses.

"Saddam's government has contact with many international terrorist organizations that likely have cells here in the United States."


"He could make those weapons [WMD] available to many terrorist groups which have contact with his government, and those groups could bring those weapons into the U.S. and unleash a devastating attack against our citizens. I fear that greatly."


"He was talking about the Palestinian groups that had established relationships with Saddam," she said. "Abu Nidal was living in Baghdad before the war."

"The fact that Zarqawi certainly is related to the death of the U.S. aid officer and that he is very close to bin Laden puts at rest, in fairly dramatic terms, that there is at least a substantial connection between Saddam and al Qaeda.”

"Members of al Qaeda, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks that occurred on September 11, are known to be in Iraq."

No these aren't quotes from the root of all evil around the globe (W), they are from Democratic Senator Jay Rockefeller prior to the Iraq War.

I don't really see this as hypocrisy, what bothers me is that the Democrats don't have a plan to go from here. Ok, we all thought WMD's were there, we didn't find any. But the situation there is serious and leaving before the Iraqi military is competent would have horrible consequences. I don't understand why the Democrats don't understand this and instead, focus all their energy on dreaming up anti-W bumper stickers.

What I find to be hypocritical is that the Democrats are all spewing rhetoric now that completely contradicts what they said prior to the invasion. People make a lot of hay about the run-up to war and the republicans said this and that.....but the democrats were saying the exact same things. Hypocritical at the least.

I should have prefaced this post by saying that this is not a blanket condemnation. A few Democrats like John Edwards have taken credit for what they said before the war and have said that they were wrong. But they are in the minority.

"Changing their minds" doesn't cut it because they don't take responsibility for being part of the cheerleading squad. They want people to forget that they ever said anything positive re: invading Iraq. It's just not the case, and this is what Tony Snow means when he says that the Democrats had the same intelligence that the Republicans had and overwhelmingly voted in a bi-partisan way.

And as far as Howard Dean and the comments he has made in the past 2 years....that video is the tip of the iceburg. He's probably the second worst - the worst being Hillary Clinton and her "Well I voted for the resolution but not to go to war" balancing act.

Newsflash: the majority of Republicans and Democrats are hypocritical. Not all, but most. They're politicians, whose own opinions sway, depending on the circumstances. And most of them wouldn't have a career if they didn't "adapt" so to speak. Why are we continually surprised by this? they're career politicians, and guess what, we elected them, knowing full well that this is how they behave.

That said, there are some cases where someone might, just MIGHT, earnestly change their mind on something, given new information or just simply by seeing something in a new way. It happens to us all the time as people. If someone wants to call that flip-flopping, go ahead. But you're an idiot if you thinks that's always the case.

When are ANY political parties of any classification not being accused of being part of a hypocrisy? It's just part of the stupid games that all sides of the political spectrum seem to be involved in at any given time.

It has NOTHING to do with any ones position of being a democrat or republican. It's politics in general, and it comes from all angles.

Fact: any politician that is always straightforward and honest will lose, because that's not what people want.

Agreed. This is the nature of politicians, and they all do it. It takes a good man or woman to admit to a wrong decision and then change, but rarely if ever have I seen that on either side of the isle.

This is such bullshit.

Russ Feingold said this before the war:
“With Regard To Iraq, I Agree, Iraq Presents A Genuine Threat, Especially In The Form Of Weapons Of Mass Destruction, Chemical, Biological, And Potentially Nuclear Weapons. I Agree That Saddam Hussein Is Exceptionally Dangerous And Brutal, If Not Uniquely So, As The President Argues.”

No shit. It was true. It's not like he's now saying that Sadaam is a good man.

And then they say after he felt this way:
"Feingold Said He Is Very Troubled That Bush Continued To Justify The War On The Basis Of Iraqi's Possession Of Weapons Of Mass Destruction."

No shit! It's troubling that the President lied to Americans and went to war without knowing all (or any) of the facts!

Feingold didn't even vote to invade Iraq in the first place!
His is just the first I looked at, but I'm sure all of these are just as fucking bad.

It's like they're blaming the Dems for voting to invade Iraq b/c they thought there were weapons of mass destruction. ANd why did they think that? Because that is what the President and all his 'intelligence' agencies were telling us. And now, the Dems are flip-floppers because they know the truth and realize it was a mistake. Of course, the GOP Senators are so much better, becuase they were lied to, went along with it, and then, when the truth was discovered, they continued to think the same things. What is more practical I ask? I mean seriously.

Either way, I don't believe for a moment than an honest politician can be successful, because for all the complaining they do, the deception, duplicity, and lack of stance is exactly what people want. You don't have to understand the issues that way, but it also feels safer in a way.

Sorry for te double post, but this really makes me mad. Hillary before the war:
"In The Four Years Since The Inspectors Left, Intelligence Reports Show That Saddam Hussein Has Worked To Rebuild His Chemical And Biological Weapons Stock, His Missle Delivery Capability, And His Nuclear Program. ... It Is Clear, However, That If Left Unchecked, Saddam Hussein Will Continue To Increase His Capacity To Wage Biological And Chemical Warfare And Will Keep Trying To Develop Nuclear Weapons."

And whose intelligence reports is she basing this on? The GOP Administration's intelligence reports. How can they blame her for believing what the President tells her?

And then after the war:
“[W]hen You Have An Administration That Never Admits They Make A Mistake, It Doesn’t Matter What The Circumstances Or The Facts Are …”


Looks like what the GOP is doing now. Sticking to their guns. How admirable. Of course, those are the same guns they were sticking to 4 years ago when not all the facts were known. What's better, learn and adapt, or learn and ignore?

It's probably a fair statement to suggest that the dems "don't have a plan to go from here.". However, the Bush admin's "stay the course" policy is no more viable.

I'm still waiting for a politico to give us the "no spin" truth on Iraq: There is no "good plan" (insofar as US involvement is concerned). There is no (desirable) solution for Iraq.
I've said it before: At some point Iraq will emerge as a muslim theocracy, heavily influenced by Iran, the variables between now and then are the time it takes and the amount of bloodshed.

Of course at that point (or maybe before) the Kurds will attempt seccession, resulting, most likely, in a Turkey/Kurdistan conflict...Turkey is currently amassing troops at the Iraq border...Turkey accusses kurdish militants of getting refuge within Iraq's Kurdish territory...it's (perhaps) the most underreported story of the war.

You call it flip-flopping, I call it LEARNING, and admitting past mistakes.

You know what though? In this case, the mistakes are the Republicans fault more than it is the Democrat's fault.

It's only natural to change your stand as the actual issue is changing as well. like PD said, you learn from mistakes. either made by others or yourself.

See, this is the point. The Democrats were "duped" while the evil Republicans knew all along there were no WMD and are "sticking to the same guns they were sticking to 4 year ago." This is a total crock. The Bush Administration and most Republicans have both admitted it was a massive intelligence failure and have admitted to making many, many mistakes in Iraq. The difference being presented is that the Democrats have spun it into "Bush lied" and "we were duped."

Prior comments were correct - a lot of this is politics and is done on both sides of the isle...both are hypocrites at times. That being said, I find it to be disingenuous for the Democrats to hold themselves as some sort of victims caught up in a Republican plot and are the party of integrity. They saw the same intelligence as the Republicans did - call it what it is (an intelligence failure) and move on. But no, to this day we hear the "Bush lied" mantra.

As far as the Iraq war goes - do people really expect President Bush or his Administration to come out and say - "Well, this was a mistake" when we have over 140,000 troops in country? They're never going to imply to the troops that they are there for no reason. Never. Also, the outcome is still up in the air, despite all the accusations that the war is a "failure" or "we can't win." It is still a work in progress, and at least we can give our leadership the benefit of the doubt in that regard. There will be plenty of time in two years to blast Bush as the worst president ever, as I'm sure will happen no matter what he accomplishes.

I wish someone had video taped my argument with some dickhead at my party back in 2002 where I told him, there is NO EVIDENCE that Sadaam has WMDs, and he was all like, "no, you're wrong ... they know exactly what he has and where it's at."

I was right from page one, but no one ever puts videos of ME on fucking YouTube!!

For the record, I think Bush IS a lying sack of shit. And if I am wrong, and he is not a big liar, then he is a horribly, horribly ignorant and stupid human being. I cant come to any other possible conclusions. Unless it's a mix of those two options. Which usually ends up being the case most of the time.