So I'm frustrated by some of the articles that have been popping up in the N and D forum lately. As of late I've really come to enjoy the "alternative left" train of thought that has developed in this community and I really don't know where those articles came from and why there's any support for their narrow mindedness.

It's frustrating because it gets published, and people believe it. Are we really that dumb?

What's worse, and more frustrating to me though, is Bush. Jesus Christ, throw me a freakin' bone here. The Administration has done so much on so many fronts, in so many countries, we've taken so many steps forward in trying to achieve something genuinely good, but for some reason when he talks to us, he talks to us like we're fucking idiots.

I just sat in the chow hall watching the man, and one of the news reporters asked a question about the Geneva Convention. He said, "Well, it's really vague and overly complicated...but...let me put it into terms that the people can understand." What the fuck? I, and the majority of American's are too stupid for you to tell us the reality of it? And just like the war on terror, you gotta churn down into something that its not in order to sell your wants and needs to get something done? What the fuck!

I'm just curious...is America really this dumb? Come on now...

Good points, and yes, America really is this dumb. In fact, I think America is dumber.

bush was allowed to become president in the first place. then america reelected him by a pretty large margin. they've let him off the hook for much of what he's done.

yes, american is really this dumb.

Agreed. Or to be more specific, Americans think that by voting for someone, they are deferring responsibility from themselves to the government.

that's a great point.

if this was the case, i'd think more democrats would be elected

As long as Americans follow the binary scheme of politics (as in, either Republican or Democrat), America will be "that dumb". At least 90% of people I meet are seriously dumb enough to believe that Republicans are right and Democrats are wrong, or vice versa.

As the population of poor immigrants from South America increases and when the baby boomers retired and suddenly realize they should have saved some money for it, you will a huge increase in the power of the democratic party.

And yes, America is getting dumberer. Go talk to any high school student, you'll see.

I disagree that America is too dumb to understand such concepts. I think we have been convinced that we are dumb by those on the left and right. This is a very well-connected, yet very busy society. I think we are all quite intelligent, but do not have the time to read, digest, and understand every little notion concern foreign policy and matters of government. People have lives to live, children to raise, and careers to keep. Given the time, I believe most Americans can come to a better understanding of the concepts that are questioned often in politics and matters of the world. But that time is precious, and for better or worse, this is how things are.

Not being at all interested in politics is not the same thing as dumb. About half of us (Americans) are apolitical and do not care at all about the political world. Then you have some people who are engaged during presidential elections and other salient national and local issues.

Then you have people like us who debate this stuff at length because we really care. SInce we really care, we spend a lot of time researching our arguments It doesn't make us necessarily smarter overall, just smarter when it comes to politics.

As for Bush, his press conference was VERY good.

In terms of that quote...I'm not sure I'm remember correctly, but didn't he say "let me put this in terms that people understand...if we do not clarify the wording of these regulations, the program will not go forward"

I don't think he was even talking to the American people, he was talking to the reporter, Dems, and McCain et, al. It was a direct statement to them so THEY understand.

yes, there is only so much time to get your American Idol fix and whatnot... please... it's not that we don't have time, it's that we use it for the stupidest shit in the world

It's not that people are just dumb, it's that people don't want to be involved in the political process, so they buy whatever our government and the media says or they ignore it completely. It isn't good for democracy when barely half of the registered electorate turns out for a vote.

New Man-law:

You don't vote, you can't bitch.

I disagree. When there are no good viable candidates, and the system itself is corrupt and/or broken, dissent is not an unreasonable position.

considering you're playing on a website that's dedicated to a band that's about as liberal as a band can be, i'd say it's odd that you're surprised to see articles from the alternative press here. are you really that confused?

if so, maybe YOU should run for president.

well fuck me runnin... we agree!

I've had this rule for a while now.

And yes, I believe dissent is a viable option, but apathy through not voting, not engaging and not informing yourself is not dissent, it's just laziness. If you want to show your dissent start a campaign for some write in or third party candidates, find some like minded people, just engage in some way.

I'm not talking about not informing and not engaging. I'm talking only about not voting. I believe my show of non-vote holds more weight than writing in crazy farmer John as a candidate. This has nothing to do with being lazy....at least not what I'm talking about. I would agree there are people out there who stay purposefully ignorant. I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about well informed people who are sick of the current system, it's amount of corruption, and lame candidates.

I think of a non-vote as a show of people becoming disinterested in the system and what it has become. That, in and of itself, is a show of hands. A non-vote, in this case, IS a vote, of sorts.