Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
I'll start off this one with a bang:
--Progressive.
The preferred code word for the Left these days. What bugs me about it is that it implies a certain sense that their ideology is inherently better--i.e., making progress. I wouldn't dare make that presumption of any ideology. It also bugs me that it's seeped over to "progressive income tax"--though I'll admit that this term alone makes at least some sense--I just don't like the extra connontation.
--Family Values
Every time I hear this term arise, my reply is this: "The most successful communist society in history is the family." Think about it. One or two people pooling all their resources together with several people and sharing them for the common good. But anyway, to think that there has to be one ideal family structure is absurd--there's more than one way to skin the cat.
I know we've discussed some others in this forum, feel free to put them in here as well.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
Green Habit wrote:
I'll start off this one with a bang:
--Progressive.
The preferred code word for the Left these days. What bugs me about it is that it implies a certain sense that their ideology is inherently better--i.e., making progress. I wouldn't dare make that presumption of any ideology. It also bugs me that it's seeped over to "progressive income tax"--though I'll admit that this term alone makes at least some sense--I just don't like the extra connontation.
Progressive is an old political term, going back at least as far as the term "Progressive Income Tax", which is completely unrelated, by the way.
Progressivism is a term that refers to a variety of political philosophies that promote what they see as progress, or positive social change. There are at least three distinct meanings of the word progressive. Ordered from the most vague to the most specific, they are as follows:
In the broadest sense, the label "progressive" may be used in self-description by anyone who advocates any kind of change in society. This could include the entire political spectrum.
In a somewhat more restricted sense, "progressive" is a term used within left-wing politics to distinguish left-wingers who advocate moderate or gradual social change (called "progressives" or "reformists") from those who advocate larger and more rapid changes (called "revolutionaries" or "radicals").
Finally, in the most specific sense, there is a political movement and ideology called progressivism that first began in North America during the late 19th century and the early 20th century. This ideology belongs to the moderate left, but not every moderate leftist is a progressive. Progressives support the continual advancement of workers' rights and social justice within the context of a mixed economy. They were also among the earliest proponents of the welfare state and anti-trust laws. It is this meaning of progressivism that will be covered in the rest of the article below.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
defense of marriage
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:36 am Posts: 399 Location: New York
"The Culture of Life"
I don't have problem with Pope John Paul II's use of this phrase, but Bush co-opting it and using as a political slogan when it's painfully obvious that he had no idea of what the Pope was talking about or more correctly he was cherry picking certain aspects of the Pope's "culture of life" that he found useful and ignored the rest. Bush used it as talking point to play to the religious right without any real intention of living up to the ideals the Pope intended.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
punkdavid wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
I'll start off this one with a bang:
--Progressive.
The preferred code word for the Left these days. What bugs me about it is that it implies a certain sense that their ideology is inherently better--i.e., making progress. I wouldn't dare make that presumption of any ideology. It also bugs me that it's seeped over to "progressive income tax"--though I'll admit that this term alone makes at least some sense--I just don't like the extra connontation.
Progressive is an old political term, going back at least as far as the term "Progressive Income Tax", which is completely unrelated, by the way.
Progressivism is a term that refers to a variety of political philosophies that promote what they see as progress, or positive social change. There are at least three distinct meanings of the word progressive. Ordered from the most vague to the most specific, they are as follows:
In the broadest sense, the label "progressive" may be used in self-description by anyone who advocates any kind of change in society. This could include the entire political spectrum.
In a somewhat more restricted sense, "progressive" is a term used within left-wing politics to distinguish left-wingers who advocate moderate or gradual social change (called "progressives" or "reformists") from those who advocate larger and more rapid changes (called "revolutionaries" or "radicals").
Finally, in the most specific sense, there is a political movement and ideology called progressivism that first began in North America during the late 19th century and the early 20th century. This ideology belongs to the moderate left, but not every moderate leftist is a progressive. Progressives support the continual advancement of workers' rights and social justice within the context of a mixed economy. They were also among the earliest proponents of the welfare state and anti-trust laws. It is this meaning of progressivism that will be covered in the rest of the article below.
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:54 am Posts: 7189 Location: CA
punkdavid wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
PD, I'm afraid your definition didn't make me dislike the term 'progressive' any less, but its nice to at least set the frame of the discussion.
If you look at larger arc of history, there's little doubt which direction "progress" is.
Larger and more onerous government? Thanks but no thanks.
Well, you could just let the strong and rich oppress the weak and poor instead...
To be clear: I don't think that 'progressive' or 'liberal' goals are to make the government bureaucracies larger and more wasteful, but that appears to be the unavoidable result. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as an agile and effective government program.
I guess the Dems get some credit, they sometimes feign disdain for government waste, unlike the current ruling party.
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:54 am Posts: 7189 Location: CA
Green Habit wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
I guess the Dems get some credit, they sometimes feign disdain for government waste, unlike the current ruling party.
Don't go too far--I'm sure if the Dems had all three segments under control like the Republicans do now, there would still be plenty of spending.
Oh, no doubt, but of the two one would have expected prior to say, 2000 that the republicans would decry waste instead of vice versa. This used to be one of the big issues of the Republican platform, but I guess it doesn't get the vote out like soddomites marrying.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
simple schoolboy wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
PD, I'm afraid your definition didn't make me dislike the term 'progressive' any less, but its nice to at least set the frame of the discussion.
If you look at larger arc of history, there's little doubt which direction "progress" is.
Larger and more onerous government? Thanks but no thanks.
Well, you could just let the strong and rich oppress the weak and poor instead...
To be clear: I don't think that 'progressive' or 'liberal' goals are to make the government bureaucracies larger and more wasteful, but that appears to be the unavoidable result. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as an agile and effective government program.
Agreed. It's a tradeoff. You want to live like animals and fuck each other over in the name of "the market", and survival of the fittest, and big strong warrior lead the tribe and all that, then government social programs are not really necessary.
Of course, the really wonderful thing is when the right-wing gets a hold of the reigns of the big government that the liberals have built. Then you get protections for corporations and the wealthy, a big fat military budget, imposition of conservative social values, and the larger onerous government is absolutely no smaller in the end. It's like the conservatives and reactionaries say, "Damn, we were relying too much on nature for fucking over the people. This big government is a MUCH more effective tool!"
The hammer was not designed to be used to crush skulls, but it is quite effective for that purpose if one chooses.
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
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Still doesn't reduce my dislike for the usage of it.
