Where exactly do frodo, bilbo, gandalf and the elfs go to at the end?, I am guessing since they were all at one time tempted by the ring, that they have to move on from everyone else?.....On another the note, the extended additions were so much better, more faramir, more witch king, everything that was taken out so never should of been.

They are all going to the Grey Havens. The elves because their time has come to and end. The age of Men started at the end of the War. Gandalf feels his time has come as well. Bilbo is so old and loves the ways of the elves so much that he is afforded a special place, as is Frodo. Frodo more because he feels a little sad that he no longer possesses the ring. Also, all the bearers of the ring (including Sam) were offered a passage to the Grey Havens. But Sam chose his family.

Yes the EE's are awesome and much better than the theatrical versions in so many ways. But, it seems pretty obvious that the 4+ hour versions, at least to me, wouldn't make New Line as much money as the 3:15 versions. But I'm not griping, I'm just glad that these movies were made and I know possess my 'preciousessssssssss,' all three EE's.

I only reason I ever found that Bilbo and Frodo got a ride was because they were ringbearers and that was the only reason. It had nothing to do with Bilbo's love for the elves. At least that's my impression.

Gandalf went because his time was over. Someone else can probably expand on it, but from what I understand, the wizards were sent down as council for the 3rd age. And, since that age was ending and the age of man was beginning, their roles were over. Which makes me wonder...what ever happened to Radagast?

never read the books, so i was wondering the same thing. so the grey havens is like "heaven?" is it more of a spiritual or physical transcendence? can they come back?

also:

1. why was arwen dying or connected with the ring? can elves decide to die? and what/where is the source of elvish power?

2. why didnt the elves fight in the war?

3. gimli was the last dwarf? damn, someone needs to clone his ass.

4. what was the deal with the spirits that were cursed in the mountains? why didn't aragorn order those spirits to take down everyone in mordor too?

any LOTR experts?

I'm no expert, but here are my guesses.

2) The majority of Elves had already left to go to the Gray Havens. From what I understand, the elves that Arwen was with were the last big group of elves to be leaving.

3) Gimli wasn't the last dwarf...he was just the only one really focused upon in the movie, and books for that matter.

4) Basically, Aragorn was noble and considered their debt fulfilled after the battle at minas tirith. I believe that was more of a character thing. He was honorable. I could be wrong, but that's how I've always understood it.

I'm no LOTR super geek, but I have read the books a couple of times, and I think I can help.

The Grey Havens is the port that they all left from at the end of the story. Their destination was the "Undying Lands", which has a name if you read the Silmarillion, but I don't remember it. In the mythology, it is where the elves came from in the first age, and where they are now returning at the end of the third age. Gandalf and the other Istari (there were 5 but only three appear in the books) were sent from there to aid the people of Middle Earth to resist the re-emergence of Sauron several hundred years before the LOTR takes place.

If you're a fan of the films, you really must take the time to read the books. You will be very thankful you did.

--PunkDavid

I love Boromir so I'll throw in my two cents:
The Gray Havens are some island across the ocean. I believe once the elves go over there they don't come back although I don't see why the couldn't if they really wanted to. I think another reason The Bilb got to go was cause he was the jam.

1. I think Arwen sucks in the movie. She should have been killed off.
2. The elves did fight their own little battles in Lothlorien I believe (where Galadriel lives) in the books. And also in the forest by the Misty Mountains. Also, Elrond sent a few elves/sons to fight with the men at Minas Tirith and Helm's Deep (I think they were at Helm's Deep - it's been a while).
3. Gimli wasn't the last dwarf. Like the elves, they also fought against Sauron's forces in their regions (I'm pretty sure they did - like I said, it's been a while)
4. The dead army in the mountain were supposed to help fight orcs and stuff way back in the day. They swore their allegiance to Isildur, but pussed out at the end. Isildur cursed them, so that's their deal. Aragorn only asked them to fight one battle or something and gave them his word as King of Gondor that he'd release them afterwards. That's why he wouldn't make them fight again.

Of course like I said it's been a year or so since I read all the books. Take what I say with a grain of salt lest Smaug burn your ass down.

They were not at Helm's Deep or Minas Tirith in the books.

Elrond's sons and a couple other elves were at one, if not both. They rode out into the Pelennor Fields battle...I think...

In the book, Elrond's sons and a few other elves meet Aragorn at the Dimboldt to deliver the message that he must take the paths of the dead and arrive from the sea (the part that Elrond himself plays i the movie). The elves then accompany Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas through the paths of the dead, take the Corsairs, and attack from the river. If memory serves, in the book Aragorn releases the army of the dead after they take the Corsairs, and they never go to Pelanor Fields. Is that right?

--PunkDavid

I'm pretty sure the Army of the Dead at Pelanor Fields is faithful to the book. Peter Jackson has been quoted as saying that he thought it was anti-climactic and unbelievable but he went ahead and went with it since that's how Tolkein wrote it.

I looked it up, I was right. Along the way to taking the corsairs, Aragorn gains the company of many men of the villages of southern Gondor who follow him to the river. The army of the dead help them take the ships, and then Aragorn arrives at Pelanor fields with an army of men behind him. It is Aragorn's very entrance onto the battle with just enough force to turn the battle to victory that is his contribution. That and the fact that it marks the return of the king, is what is so inspiring.

--PunkDavid

the thing about arwen and aragorn is a parallel to the ooh, names escaping me... the hobbits hear of a story of an elf who falls in love with a man, she decides to be with him and she chooses a mortal life. that sound right? (lotr buffs, not novices)

Beren and Luthien.

(shit, maybe I am a LOTR geek )

BTW, I found this while I was looking for information before. It's pretty good notes on the books.

Fellowship: http://www.bookrags.com/notes/fel/
Two Towers: http://www.bookrags.com/notes/two/
ROTK: http://www.bookrags.com/notes/ret/

--PunkDavid

If you watch the EE's with the director/writers commentary on, they explain alot about where and why they made changes from the text. And also why some of the changes that were made, were meant to be symbolic of another part of the book that could not be included. An example of this is in TTT, the elves show up at Helm's Deep not because it was in the book, but because the elves were fighting their own battles in other parts of Middle Earth.

This is a great site I use when I'm having trouble remembering names:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

It's full of Tolkien tidbits.

good shit guys, thanks for all the info

i would like to see them do another movie based solely on the battle for the shire. that was one of my favorite parts of the book. i thought the grey havens ending in the movie was painfully weak and i winced through the entire homoerotic end scene....terrible yet necessary i guess. you need some closure after investing 3 years of your life watching these movies....but the battle for the shire would kick ass as a movie!


also frodo, bilbo, and sam were afforded a place on the ships because they bore the ring. sam eventually went after he lived his life (if i remember the book correctly. it has been 2 years since i read it)

The elve was dying because elves power comes from a start which was blocked by Sauron's clouds, how this spares her dad I don't know. I've heard the battle for the shire was against the grey wizard and he was still alive?

i forget exactly. i think it was a local guy. if you read the first book, there is a guy who rats out the hobbits when they are staying at the prancing pony, and its him who is the ringleader (puppet maybe). he was a pretty unpopular guy and i think he was run out of town in the first book but comes back. anyways the whole shire has become corrupt and overrun with goblins and the hobbits are practically slaves. merry and pip end up being the bigger heroes than sam and frodo, which is a nice little twist.

There are several dark strangers at the inn and around the area when the Hobbis set out on the journey, and it turns out that they are sort of forward scouts for Saruman who has designs on using the Shire and the other lands of the west as a base after he has acquired the ring for his own purposes. You remember when Aragorn and Gandalf and everyone arrive at Isengard after it has been flooded, Merry and Pippin are eating and drinking and smoking. In the book, they later put two and two together and realize that these familar foods and weed are FROM the Shire, as Saruman has already been doing business with some of the Shirefolk from the south farthing.

The most complicitous Hobbit in the scouring of the Shire turned out to be Frodo's cousin whom he had left Bag End to. He vainly tried to accumulate power by dealing with Saruman, and he ended up selling out his own people, and being betrayed by Saruman.

By the time the Hobbits return to the Shire, over a year has passed, and over six months since they left Saruman and Wormtongue cast into the wilderness (they were not killed at Orthanc like in the movie). The Shire had been overrun by evil men in the service of Saruman, and the Hobbits had either been forced into labor, or into complicity with the men. The four Hobbits organize a revolt and drive out the men. Saruman is ultimately killed, much in the same manner as he is in the film, right on the doorstep of Bag End.

--PunkDavid