Board index » Watched from the Window, with a Red Mosquito... » Pearl Jam




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Vote
Whipping 16%  16%  [ 17 ]
Grievance 78%  78%  [ 79 ]
Can't Decide 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Other 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 101
Author Message
 Post subject: The best....political call to arms
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Global Moderator
 Profile

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:02 am
Posts: 44183
Location: New York
Gender: Male
Whipping vs. Grievance


Whipping
Don't need a helmet, got a hard, hard head
Don't need a raincoat, I'm already wet
Don't need a bandage, there's too much...blood...
After a while, seems to roll right off...

They're whipping...

Don't need a hand, there's always arms attached
Oh, don't get behind, I can't fall back
Why must we trust all these rusted rails?
They don't want no change we already have

They're whipping...

Don't mean to push, but I'm being shoved!
Ohh, I'm just like you, think we've had enough
I can't believe a thing they want us to...
Oh, we all got scars, they should have 'em too...

They're whipping...


Grievance


Have a drink they're buying
Bottom of, bottle of denial
Big guy,... big eye,... watching me...
Have to wonder what it sees...
Progress... laced with... ramifications...
Freedom's big plunge

Pull the innocent from a crowd
Raise the sticks then bring em down
If they fail to obey... oh if they fail to obey,

For every tool they lend us... a loss of independence

I pledge my grievance to the flag
Cause you don't give blood... to take it back again
Oh we're all deserving something more
Progress... taste it... invest-it-all
Champagne breakfast for everyone

Break the innocent when they're proud...
Raise the stakes... then bring em down...
If they fail to obey... if they fail to obey

Pledge your grievance to the flag
Cause you don't give blood... then take it back again
Oh we're all deserving something more.

I want to breathe
Follow the scene
I want to taste
Everyone I see
I want to run when I'm up high
I want to run into the sea
I only want life.... to be...
I just want to be...
I will feel alive... as long as I am free...


Previous The Best…
1.existential album closer
2. failing love song
3.seize the day song
4. anti-war song
5. song for unrequited love
6. song for a father
7. guitar solo
8. song about getting away

_________________
"Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."--FDR

The perfect gift for certain occasions


Last edited by stip on Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:47 pm
Posts: 1613
Location: Suffragette City
love em both, yet Whipping gets me going more at a pj show

_________________
And The Lord spake saying Thou shalt get Stella Thy groove back and that only with it Thou shall become Thy Lord Of the Dance

my dvds:
http://db.etree.org/jimbojones1138


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Global Moderator
 Profile

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:02 am
Posts: 44183
Location: New York
Gender: Male
By political call to arms I mean a song that not only tells you about a way the world is unjust, but also inspires you to go out to do something about it. It needs to be a song that has you fired up at the end, ready to go find a rally. REM's Final Straw or Pearl Jam's insignificance are both powerful songs in their own way, but neither one leaves you fired up. Both bear witness to injustice but don't call you to the barricades. Both of these songs try to do that


I love the sense of rolling intensity that whipping begins with. It lets you know right away that the song has something to say without shoving it in your face. It sweeps you up along with it—you are part of the tide, and that matters for these kinds of songs. There has to be a certain feeling of angry solidarity—you are part of a group, and that whole group is pissed

Lyrically the song is a bit too vague. Lots of great individual lines that convey a sense of group defiance, a refusal to accept a world or system that continuously demands sacrifice while giving nothing in return, that makes demands of others without giving of themselves in return. It is outraged by hypocrisy and wants revenge, or at least change. But in the end whipping is a bit too abstract. There is nothing specific to grab on to. While this means you can apply it just about any situation you would like, it lacks substance to make it stick


Grievance is a more interesting, although musically less immediate than whipping, and like Light Years, I think it suffers slightly in that regard. A good political song should be catchy (which is not necessarily the same thing as simple) and infectious, and grievance is a bit too challenging in that regard (some of that might be because of the binaural murk).

Lyrically, however, it is a masterpiece. Probably the best piece of political writing ed has ever done (with the possible exception of WWS). In part because of its inspiration (I believe this was written watching the WTO protests in Seattle) there is a sense of concreteness to the lyrics that whipping lacks. It is abstract, but there is a condemnation of globalization (or the disingenuous promise of freedom given to mask exploitation, which works domestically and internationally), and a celebration of the political act of protest. It spends its time glorifying resistance, rather than attacking hypocrisy. Both are there, but here it is the act, rather than the critique, that is controlling the song. It is a more mature approach than the ‘don’t trust anyone over 30’ attitude of whipping.

Both songs ends on a note of defiance, but there is a sense of martyrdom in whipping “do your worst, I’ll still resist” that isn’t quite as inspiring as the declaration of faith and freedom in the end of Grievance. The cry for revenge isn’t as compelling as the cry for freedom

Grievance takes it.

_________________
"Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."--FDR

The perfect gift for certain occasions


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Team Binaural
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 5:23 pm
Posts: 12793
Location: Tours, FR
Gender: Male
We're all deserving something more

_________________
There has never been a silence like this before


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:26 pm 
Offline
Yeah Yeah Yeah
 Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:12 am
Posts: 3783
Whipping and Greivance shows us how much better of a song writer Ed became between Vitalogy and Binaural.

Grievance is an agressive, intricate tune with ups and downs and passion.

Whipping is an agressive, simple, boring tune that has some great lines but is dreck musically.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Stone's Bitch
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:42 am
Posts: 11014
Location: Mizzou
Gender: Male
Grievance hands down.

_________________
"Red rover, red rover, let Mike McCready take over."


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Founding Bitch
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:09 pm
Posts: 13868
Location: Norn Iron
Monkey_Driven wrote:
Grievance hands down.

_________________
Wilderness 1:49-2:04. Diamond Dust.

Window Washer's Dream - Planet Sonata's Intension


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Johnny Guitar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:52 pm
Posts: 109
Undone!


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Former PJ Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:00 pm
Posts: 19826
Location: Alone in a corridor
Grievance by 10.000 light years.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Stone's Bitch
 Profile

Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:38 am
Posts: 999
Location: Argentina
Hard choice, but Grievance

_________________
I'm in hiding


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Stone's Bitch
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:37 pm
Posts: 7376
Location: Vlaardingen, Netherlands
Gender: Female
I think there's still more power in the chosen cover songs, like Masters of War and Gimme Some Truth, for instance.

groetjes,
Mirella :) "people have the power" ;)

_________________
93 Rdm2x 96 D L2x Ber Gro Ams Par Zür 00 L2x D Gla Man Car Par Pin Pra Kat2x Sal Lju Ver Ber Ham Ros L 01 BSB2x Sea2x 06 D Arn Ant Bern Bol Ver Mil Tor Pis Pra Ber Vie Zag 07 L Düs Nij Wer 09 L Rdm Ber Man L 10 D Belf L Ber 12 Am2x EV:Am2x


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:02 am
Posts: 2560
Location: Dallas/Atlanta/Savannah
never would have thought of whipping in that context. but it makes sense when you read the lyrics, though it seems like it could maybe be an anti slavery song, kinda pulling that outa my ass, but it seems like whipping alludes to that.

_________________
"is that a fucking pearl jam shirt?" Courtney Love

http://www.jason-stallings.com


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Global Moderator
 Profile

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:02 am
Posts: 44183
Location: New York
Gender: Male
Junco Partner wrote:
never would have thought of whipping in that context. but it makes sense when you read the lyrics, though it seems like it could maybe be an anti slavery song, kinda pulling that outa my ass, but it seems like whipping alludes to that.


I don't think an anti-slavery song would be that compelling in the year 1994, but the metaphor and image of the slave driver, of being driven like chattel or punished for disobedience, still works

_________________
"Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."--FDR

The perfect gift for certain occasions


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Team Binaural
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:39 pm
Posts: 9981
Location: NYC/Savannah
Grievance.

Like Stip wrote, it is a song "that has you fired up at the end, ready to go find a rally."

_________________
I don’t understand a word of these emails and I am ok with that.
-KC

I just try to ask as many questions as I can, and then I try to sit down and write a story that people will want to read. – Chris Jones

conoalias wrote:
you are good people chin.

Team Binaural


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Needs to start paying for bandwidth
 Profile

Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:20 am
Posts: 31173
Grievance

Have a drink they're buying
Bottom of, bottle of denial
Big guy,... big eye,... watching me...
Have to wonder what it sees...
Progress... laced with... ramifications...
Freedom's big plunge

Pull the innocent from a crowd
Raise the sticks then bring em down
If they fail to obey... oh if they fail to obey,

For every tool they lend us... a loss of independence

I pledge my grievance to the flag
Cause you don't give blood... to take it back again
Oh we're all deserving something more
Progress... taste it... invest-it-all
Champagne breakfast for everyone

Break the innocent when they're proud...
Raise the stakes... then bring em down...
If they fail to obey... if they fail to obey

Pledge your grievance to the flag
Cause you don't give blood... then take it back again
Oh we're all deserving something more.

I want to breathe
Follow the scene
I want to taste
Everyone I see
I want to run when I'm up high
I want to run into the sea
I only want life.... to be...
I just want to be...
I will feel alive... as long as I am free...


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:03 am 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 1584
Location: Huntsville, Tx
Gender: Male
Easy choice here, it is Grievance

_________________
I won't change direction, and I won't change my mind


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:06 am 
Offline
User avatar
Stone's Bitch
 Profile

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:33 am
Posts: 35357
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Gender: Male
I pledge my Grievance to the flag...

_________________
Winner, RM all-time NBA tourney. :D

Winner, 2008 US Pearl Jam fantasy league. :D

Everton FC: 3-1-5
Anaheim Webbed D's: 5-6-2
USC Football: 7-2
Denver Broncos: 3-5


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:21 am 
Offline
User avatar
Supersonic
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 12393
I think of WWS as a call to arms, and it wins.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:57 am 
Offline
User avatar
AnalLog
 Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:36 pm
Posts: 25824
Location: south jersey
both great songs. i'll vote for whippin b/c its not getting much love, plus it kicks my ass harder than grievance does. everyone should listen to whippin from the atlanta radio show in 94. its beautifully intense

"i dont mean to push but im being shoved"

_________________
Feel the path of every day,... Which road you taking?,...


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:26 am 
Offline
User avatar
trying to make a career out of postwhoring
 Profile

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:24 am
Posts: 37009
Location: In Missouri, they would (will) not let me be
Gender: Female
Grievance out of those two.

_________________
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose
Nothin' ain't worth nothin', but it's free


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » Watched from the Window, with a Red Mosquito... » Pearl Jam


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:43 pm