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 Post subject: Christmas
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:19 pm 
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since the Walmart/christmas thing kinda derailed into a fuck/don't fuck christmas thread, i figured there should be a new thread about this very topic.

lets post articles/essays/opinions on it in this thread....



Quote:
Buddhism at Christmastime

An Essay by George Boeree

When people find out that I'm a Buddhist, they always have these cute little questions like, "Do you celebrate Christmas?" Well, I've always loved Christmas a lot, so the question kinda throws me every time.

First, they make the mistake of assuming that Christmas is a purely Christian holiday, and of course it's not: It has roots in the winter solstice celebration common to northern people, and many other roots. Christmas trees, holly branches, mistletoe, candles, feasts, gift-giving -- all are older than Christmas "proper."

Some will point out "it IS called Christmas, you know!" I (playfully!) point out that Easter is named after Eostre, goddess of the dawn (the east)! I do get some pretty dirty looks.

Santa Claus is a particular favorite of mine. He derives from the Christian Saint Nicholas, of course, but he's slowly become a more archetypal creature. It strikes me that he bears an uncanny resemblance to Pu Tai (Hotei in Japanese), the cheerful fat monk with the big hemp sack full of gifts for children. He is considered to be an incarnation of Maitreya, the future Buddha.

I have a little statue of him on a table next to my favorite chair, and he smiles at the various Santas on my Christmas tree -- and they smile back!

Some people ask me why I let my kids believe in Santa, only to disillusion them later. But I think Santa is actually for the adults, teaching us unselfish, anonymous generosity!

Even the nativity is a wonderful story. I see it more as myth than reality (the same way I view most Buddhist stories) but it touches me anyway. Beyond all the centuries of accumulated superstition, Jesus seems to have been another enlightened being, serving a different people in a different time.

The nativity story is like a parable that illustrates the wisdom of such expressions as "the meek shall inherit the earth." That's always sounded so "Buddhist" to me -- I wonder if there is a parallel in the sutras?

Mary particularly touches me (though, raised a Protestant, I was taught not to "over-value" her like Catholics do!). She has a nice counterpoint in Kuan Yin (Kwannon, or Avalokiteshwara) in his/her feminine aspect: She, too, hears the sorrows of the world. Buddhism, like Christianity, comes out of a male-dominated culture, and both need that feminine touch!

Really, what could be more "Buddhist" than a holiday that celebrates giving, compassion, and human warmth! Here's a little "present" for you, a quote from a 16th century Italian monk:

I salute you! There is nothing I can give you which you have not;
but there is much, that, while I cannot give, you can take.

No heaven can come to us unless our hearts find rest in it today.
Take Heaven.

No peace lies in the future which is not hidden in this present instant.
Take Peace.

The gloom of the world is but a shadow; behind it, yet within our reach, is joy.
Take Joy.

And so, at this Christmas time, I greet you, with the prayer that for you, now and forever, the day breaks and the shadows flee away.

--Fra Giovanni, 1513

Quoted in Tasha Tudor's "Take Joy! The Tasha Tudor Christmas Book" (Cleveland: Collins World, 1966).


mods, feel free to merge if you think it's not new thread worthy


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 pm 
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Thanks for posting that.

Christmas has a special meaning for everyone. You obviously don't have to be a Christian to celebrate Christmas, or love it for that matter.

There are a lot of major parrallels between Buddhism and Christianity. It's a good thing to concentrate on the similarities, not the differences. That whole quote was awesome, too.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:26 pm 
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Christmas is dope.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:55 pm 
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mowbs wrote:
Christmas is dope.


you think peeps would agree with this?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:07 pm 
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Gimme Some Skin wrote:
Christmas has a special meaning for everyone.


:throwup:

Just like how Mecca holds a special place in your heart. :arrow:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:22 pm 
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corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
Christmas has a special meaning for everyone.


:throwup:

Just like how Mecca holds a special place in your heart. :arrow:


So you don't celebrate Christmas?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:41 pm 
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Gimme Some Skin wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
Christmas has a special meaning for everyone.


:throwup:

Just like how Mecca holds a special place in your heart. :arrow:


So you don't celebrate Christmas?


Um... no. isnt it obvious?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:55 pm 
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corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
Christmas has a special meaning for everyone.


:throwup:

Just like how Mecca holds a special place in your heart. :arrow:


So you don't celebrate Christmas?


Um... no. isnt it obvious?


I guess.

I know lots of atheists and agnostics that still celebrate Christmas. It's a cultural holiday for most people anyway, not necessarily religious.

I don't believe in Cupid, but i still celebrate Valentine's Day.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:00 pm 
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Gimme Some Skin wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
Christmas has a special meaning for everyone.


:throwup:

Just like how Mecca holds a special place in your heart. :arrow:


So you don't celebrate Christmas?


Um... no. isnt it obvious?


I guess.

I know lots of atheists and agnostics that still celebrate Christmas. It's a cultural holiday for most people anyway, not necessarily religious.

I don't believe in Cupid, but i still celebrate Valentine's Day.


Ya, but cupid is a by-product of valentine's day, not the cause of it. christmas for me means i get a couple weeks off school, get to go home, go to lots of parties etc. But it has nothing to do with the holiday. if I was given time off in August i would do the same thing.

one thing i do hate though is when people say Happy hannukah to my jewish friends on christmas, even if it ended 4 weeks earlier. They just think that hannukah is on Dec. 25 every year.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:02 pm 
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Cord does not like religion.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:02 pm 
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corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
Christmas has a special meaning for everyone.


:throwup:

Just like how Mecca holds a special place in your heart. :arrow:


So you don't celebrate Christmas?


Um... no. isnt it obvious?


I guess.

I know lots of atheists and agnostics that still celebrate Christmas. It's a cultural holiday for most people anyway, not necessarily religious.

I don't believe in Cupid, but i still celebrate Valentine's Day.


Ya, but cupid is a by-product of valentine's day, not the cause of it. christmas for me means i get a couple weeks off school, get to go home, go to lots of parties etc. But it has nothing to do with the holiday. if I was given time off in August i would do the same thing.

one thing i do hate though is when people say Happy hannukah to my jewish friends on christmas, even if it ended 4 weeks earlier. They just think that hannukah is on Dec. 25 every year.


What aboot presents and family dinners and such?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:10 pm 
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Gimme Some Skin wrote:
What aboot presents and family dinners and such?


Family dinner is no different than any other "special" dinner when i get to go home. Sometimes we get invited to someone's house. Sometimes we are on vacation. It's just like any other day, except everything is closed.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:15 pm 
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i come from a deeply religious family so i celebrate and sort of just ignore whatever i choose to.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:16 pm 
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Edit: Nevermind. I don't want to start a debate.

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Last edited by 4/5 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:19 pm 
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aprilfifth wrote:
Christmas is just a secular holiday now anyway. None of it is Biblical, so I don't see why you wouldn't celebrate it corduroy. I mean, its much more pagan than it is religious. It seems like this would be right up your alley.

What's the difference between "pagan" and "religious". Seems just a different flavor of religious to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:24 pm 
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corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
What aboot presents and family dinners and such?


Family dinner is no different than any other "special" dinner when i get to go home. Sometimes we get invited to someone's house. Sometimes we are on vacation. It's just like any other day, except everything is closed.


Do you give/recieve presents?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:25 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
aprilfifth wrote:
Christmas is just a secular holiday now anyway. None of it is Biblical, so I don't see why you wouldn't celebrate it corduroy. I mean, its much more pagan than it is religious. It seems like this would be right up your alley.

What's the difference between "pagan" and "religious". Seems just a different flavor of religious to me.



lol guess I wasn't fast enough at deleting that post. :lol:

"Pagan" wouldn't be considered "religious" by any person who considers his/herself to be religious. I mean, this would just be a game of semantics, I suppose.

But "pagan" implies roots in things that are foreign to Christian or Judaic values. Sun worship, for example, which was the original reason for the celebration that eventually became Christmas. This would be considered "pagan," whereas, people usually think of Christmas as "religious." Though, I fully believe it to be pagan lol.

Semantics. I feel like I'm going around in circles lol. Its just word games and point of views and perspectives. Not cause for a real debate.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:30 pm 
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corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
Christmas has a special meaning for everyone.


:throwup:

Just like how Mecca holds a special place in your heart. :arrow:


So you don't celebrate Christmas?


Um... no. isnt it obvious?


I guess.

I know lots of atheists and agnostics that still celebrate Christmas. It's a cultural holiday for most people anyway, not necessarily religious.

I don't believe in Cupid, but i still celebrate Valentine's Day.


Ya, but cupid is a by-product of valentine's day, not the cause of it. christmas for me means i get a couple weeks off school, get to go home, go to lots of parties etc. But it has nothing to do with the holiday. if I was given time off in August i would do the same thing.

one thing i do hate though is when people say Happy hannukah to my jewish friends on christmas, even if it ended 4 weeks earlier. They just think that hannukah is on Dec. 25 every year.


Actually, Christmas was around before Christ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Pre-Christian_Origins_of_holiday

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:32 pm 
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aprilfifth wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
aprilfifth wrote:
Christmas is just a secular holiday now anyway. None of it is Biblical, so I don't see why you wouldn't celebrate it corduroy. I mean, its much more pagan than it is religious. It seems like this would be right up your alley.

What's the difference between "pagan" and "religious". Seems just a different flavor of religious to me.



lol guess I wasn't fast enough at deleting that post. :lol:

"Pagan" wouldn't be considered "religious" by any person who considers his/herself to be religious. I mean, this would just be a game of semantics, I suppose.

But "pagan" implies roots in things that are foreign to Christian or Judaic values. Sun worship, for example, which was the original reason for the celebration that eventually became Christmas. This would be considered "pagan," whereas, people usually think of Christmas as "religious." Though, I fully believe it to be pagan lol.

Semantics. I feel like I'm going around in circles lol. Its just word games and point of views and perspectives. Not cause for a real debate.

I guess.

I consider “worship” of anything, be it Jesus or the sun, to be religious.

This is apart from any “cultural” aspects of Christmas. I celebrate Christmas, with a tree and presents, and a family meal, and all that stuff. There aren’t any Christian themes involved.

It’s always been about winter and family and giving and universal peace and love for my family.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:34 pm 
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Gimme Some Skin wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
Gimme Some Skin wrote:
What aboot presents and family dinners and such?


Family dinner is no different than any other "special" dinner when i get to go home. Sometimes we get invited to someone's house. Sometimes we are on vacation. It's just like any other day, except everything is closed.


Do you give/recieve presents?


No. Think about what you do on a typical saturday morning. That is what i do on Dec. 25.

Think about what you do for Canadian Thanksgiving or Italian independence Day. that is basically what I do for christmas. nothing.


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