I need to find another fucking job. Maybe High School....that was a lot less emotional than Middle School, in my opinion.

Today a student's father came and got him, because this morning after he went to school Immigration came and took his mother and oldest brother away. Apparently she came over illegally....in 1986. The youngest three children, and apparently the father, are all American citizens.

They're struggling to get through this, and they hope to be able to find a way to stay, but the only thing I can figure was gained from all this is that either a family of very hard working, intelligent people is going to feel forced to leave, or three young Americans just got a huge-ass reason to hate their government and feel unwelcome.

What the fuckity fuck!

This sucks, and I feel bad for them, but that's why you should come here LEGALLY. She still broke the law. Maybe there should be a statute of limitations or something, but I doubt their country's government would be any more accomadating.

She's here illegally. What did she expect?

I'm not talking about her at all. I'm talking about her son.

This was totally not meant to be political debate on the nature of immigration, or reaction to. It was just an angry rant brought on by a crying child. If not GD, maybe it should have been put in Release?

Ah. Yeah, you do have to feel bad for a kid in such a situation.

Of course. It's not the kid's fault.

This exact situation is why the Congress has to get its act together and pass Immigration reform a.s.a.p. It is insane to think that they've been tossing bills around for over a year and can't come to an agreement.
President Bush's proposal is fair and balanced and should be put to a vote. At least it stands a good chance with a Democratic-controlled Congress.

I thought it would spark a good N&D debate, but if you want me to move it elsewhere I can.

I do worry about the huge difference I see between adult Hispanics, who love the country, and my students, who are by and large intensely frustrated, disgusted, untrusting, and jaded. I dont' feel bad for the mother, I feel terrible for the rest of the family, and I worry about the results of isolating such a large population segment.

You forgot the " "

I've been wondering about that arrow icon...what does it mean?

I went canvassing one day, and came across a guy who completely dismissed us by saying that he was from Mexico, and that he didn't care about politics in the U.S. Interestingly enough he had no accent, which made me believe he was born here. Perhaps it was a bullshit excuse, but I don't think its inaccurate to say that the U.S. is cherished only for employment opportunities, and that many Mexicans expect to go back home after they make enough money to retire comfortably. As such, this group has no real connection to the U.S.. I don't have a problem with that, its just a stretch to say that they "love" the U.S.. I don't imagine that these individuals fall into the economic only group, but I don't know if they're representative of the whole.

Well that's a drag of a one-time encounter, but dealing with these families every day, every year, by the hundreds, I can honestly say that the adults seem more connected and intense about this country than any caucasion family. It's not even close. That's my racist statement for the day.

sarcasm.

I would imagine that they also have incredibly close ties to the Mexico. Soccer alone should be enough to determine if one is 'Mexican' or not. Also, this should be reason enough to keep them out, because no real American plays soccer, and thats a fact.

Hahaha.

They're actually very evenly divided by those who love the Chivas and those who love America's team...which officially makes them America's team's only source of income.

Thanks for the clarification.

For the record, I wasn't being sarcastic. I think PD is right in that this could be a good discussion of the immigration issue (especially the debate over "anchor babies" and the Fourteenth Amendment).

Then start with that. I'm curious.

We just passed a ballot measure here in Arizona (among a couple of anti-Mexican measures that all passed) that makes it so that illegal immigrants can't get in-state tuition at state universities.

Let's consider for a moment who this law actually affects.

Does it affect people who have just entered the US illegally for the purpose of attending a state university with reduced tuition? Obviously not.

Does it affect someone who came here 3 or 4 years ago as a teenager and now wants to go to college? Maybe a few, but the reality is that most kids who come to America as teenagers never go to college.

What about those kids who were brought here illegally by their parents when they were 3 or 4 years old, and have basically lived their entire lives in America as Americans? They've grown up American, gone to high school, got good grades, have been accepted to college, largely with scholarships and other financial assistance because they are not rich, but they are technically "illegal immigrants" and so now they can't go to college because they can't afford it because people are bigots. THAT'S who gets fucked.

Arizona is kind of fucked up in this way. In a special way that is more fucked than most other places in America. Unlike New Mexico or Texas or California, there is not the same long history of Anglos living along side the Mexicans, or really of the understanding that the Mexicans were here first. More than those other places, Arizona was largely uninhabited before the Anglos settled. Arizona is "white" much more than the other states along the Mexican border. Anglos here see the Mexicans as invaders more than they seem to in the other border states, regardless of whether the Mexican's family has been here for generations.

But this brings me back to the general strangeness of the attitude towards immigration here, and in the country as a whole. Of all places, Arizona probably benefits from the labor of illegal immigrants more than just about any other state. I swear, I don't think I know anyone who doesn't have some work done for them by an undocumented worker around here. Whether that person is cutting their lawn, or painting their house, or fixing their car, not to mention everyone who is serving and preparing their food and cleaning up after them, everyone here has contact with illegals all the time.

My father came to visit me right after I moved here, and he was just baffled by the attitudes of people here towards immigration. I mean he's lived his whole life around New York, not exactly a stranger to illegal immigrants there, but people there have an understanding about it. You just understand that the citizens pay a small amount in taxes that go to services that also benefit people who are here illegally, but the benefits that the citizens get back from the immigrant laborers FAR outweigh that.

In Arizona, people are complaining that illegal immigrants are stealing benefits from hardworking taxpayers, but those immigrants pay taxes too, and the fact is that they are NOT getting a lot of the benefits that the anti-immigration people are fraudulently claiming that they are getting. For example, all those people with fake Social Security numbers, they're paying payroll taxes, but when they get older, they will not be able to collect any benefits on their fake numbers. Think about how fucked social security is right now, and imagine how completely fucked it would be if illegal immigrants weren't putting money into it that they will never be able to get back. These people also pay all the same sales taxes that the rest of us pay, and about the only true thing I've heard someone say about a benefit that they "take" is getting medical care that they can't afford at emergency rooms. Medical care. Yeah, fuck them, why should they get medical care? What did they ever do for me?

I wasn't sure about how I felt about illegal immigration until I moved to Arizona, but now I know where I stand on it. I don't believe any of the bullshit economic arguments about how they're hurting the system. If they REALLY were hurting the system, then big business would be all over immigration reform to keep them all out. But they're not, because they know the cheap labor is good for business and the economy as a whole.

All teh arguments are populist bullshit designed to enrage the average Joe and scare him into thinking that Pedro is coming to steal his job. Just like populist politics have often been over the years, the policies are rooted in sentimentality, fear, and yes, bigotry.

Patrol the borders and keep people from crossing illegally. Fine. But punishing the people who are making a life here, even if they plan on going back to their home countries some day, that's just wrong. Even if they do leave someday, teh benefits that they are heaping on the American people during the time they are here should entitle them to all the benefits of any other resident as long as they stay.

So, judging by what you have said, would it be fair to say you agree with the Democrats and the Presidents plan?
Just to note - the Democrats (I think it was the Senate) passed legislation that would give illegal immigrants credit for the social security they have paid into the system. I agree with this 100%.
But we need to fix the system and get people "out of the shadows" and on the road to citizenship. I can see the point the anti-illegal immigration folks make...they have broken the law. Then again, the government has turned a blind eye to it all, and in the end these are people who came to this country for a better life. They should not be kicked out (as the Republican congress wanted), but they shouldn't be given automatic citizenship. The middle ground, in my opinion, is the best way to go, and that is the "pathway to citizenship" the President proposed.