Do you believe there is a true god/s, or is religion merely a 'noble lie' as hypothesised by Plato to keep the masses under control? Or is it simply a faith which comforts and aids people in their daily lives?

Some quotes so that I don't have to summarise in my own words I'm lazy

is that from the republic?

anyways, yes i do think religion is a means of controlling the public and keeping society in order. i think its also human nature to want to believe that we're special, different from other animals, and chosen by god as being special. people also don't want to live their ordinary shit lives without having the hope that there's a better life after this one. the lie that is the afterlife keeps people happy with the hope that all the pain and suffering that they endure is worth it in the end. if everyone thought this life was the one and only chance we'd get, i think most people would be severely depressed and find no point in it.

i don't know what that is, i just grabbed some random paragraphs i googled to explain what i was driving at.


i agree in essence, but does the end justify the means?

I think religion was created just as philosophy was to try and understand our place in the world, the way things work, and to try and find a greater meaning. Like anything else it is used as a tool to control people, but those sorts who conform would have joined the first train to crazyland whether it was religon or not.

I do think that there is a true God or creator out there, just because there is no logical or proveable explanation for most of the questions I have. Of course I am not creating a specific organized religion on the matter because I am well aware that whatever, why, whom, and when is beyond my basic comprehension skills.

In order for someone to completely condemn religion, they really need to know the truth, and nobody does. We do not need to be taught relgion to make us good people. I dismissed just about everybit of religion I was taught as a child, and was able to go with good old common sense on the whole right and wrong thing. My two year old little sister annoyed the hell out of me, I somehow figuired out on my own not to lock her out of the house in the freezing cold without Jesus or my parents specifically telling me. Some folks are good and some are bad.

My decision making process.... "This will cause more good then bad, this will cause more bad then good." You do not need a God or a philosophy to understand that concept. If you do, then yeah you do need something like religion, or scientology, or PETA. Right and wrong is typically very obvious.

But don't you see that just because you don't know the answers, doesn't mean there a) isn't one , or b) a god is the answer. Saying that there is a creator or a god does not answer your questions. In fact it makes them even more complicated and improbable than the question you set out to answer in the beginning. Saying "oh god did it" is not in any way shape or form a logical or proveable explanation.




You do not need to know the "truth" to condemn religious dogma. It can be comdemned based on evidence and logic.



Agreed.

Great post, sums up how I feel perfectly.

There are many noble lies; all people are created equal, you can accomplish anything if you put your mind to it, etc. The religious idea of an afterlife is just one of them. I see no problem with it, so long as it's tenets are limited to those who wish to believe them.

Well, we are.

can you expand on this?

It makes sense, genetically speaking. We are all born with advantages and disadvantages. I was born tall, but with flat feet, for example. A child born with a brain defect will not have the same playing field as a child born without one. At's least that's what I took his meaning as.

Yeah, that's what I figured, just wanted confirmation from b_i that he wasn't just being a fascist arsehole

I think "all people are created equal" is a pretty ignorant stance to hold in this age. When applied to what opportunities people should have, etc, it is spot on though.

I don't think it was intended to be interpreted literally; just that all people should have the same rights.

I'll save that for the global warming thread.

yes.

Yes we are, but not in a "grand scheme of things" way. What makes us special is what we have done, not what some mysterious mythical omnipotent force has given us.

No but I am not saying that there is a God in any sort of general organized sense. I am just attributing those things outside of my own understanding to a higher power. As in, if I cannot contemplate it, it is greater then I am. I still will not prey to it or anything, I just will not dwell on it either. I find it hard to put faith in things I do not understand is my point.

But why are you putting things that you don't understand to a higher power? Why is that the "default" option? What i'm saying is, just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean that someone else doesn't know or someone else will find out. That's being a little full of yourself isn't it?

So you're saying that (I'm assuming) since you don't know about the intricacies of the pulmonary system of a giant squid, it is attributed to a higher power? Since you don't know about the social behaviour of the Archeopteryx, it is attrubted to a higher power? I'm going to bet that you don't understand the stress-strain relationship in timber framed trusses; therefore a higher power?

I don't like certain aspects of this whole stress strain thing. Whats up with unit-less values? I don't trust em! I don't want em! The devil musta made em!

Religion is, at its heart, a sincere attempt on man's part to explain and understand his world. It has been subverted for political reasons time and again. But, I don't believe that in its inception religion was intended to be a form of political control. Man is a story making animal, as far as I know, the only story making animal. What you believe is as good, in many cases, as what actually exists. We do make our own reality to a degree. However, beliefs are highly exploitable. So a great strength we have is also a great liability.