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 Post subject: North Korea and US reach deal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:27 am 
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North Korea to close nuclear reactor in return for aid


Jonathan Watts in Beijing
Tuesday February 13, 2007
Guardian Unlimited

North Korea promised today to close its nuclear reactor and readmit international inspectors in exchange for fuel aid as the first step towards disarming its atomic arsenal.

The arms-for-energy deal reached after major concessions by the US is the first tangible progress made by negotiators in more than three years of six-nation talks aimed at denuclearising the troubled peninsular.

"Obviously we have a long way to go, but we're very pleased with this agreement," US assistant secretary of state Christopher Hill told reporters. "It's a very solid step forward."

But it immediately stirred up the wrath of neoconservative politicians in Washington, who believe the US conceded too much, and the scepticism of Asian diplomats, who say the most difficult decisions about denuclearisation have yet to be made.

The initial phase of the deal is an attempt to wind back the nuclear clock on the peninsular to the situation that existed until 2002, when the last agreement broke down.

Over the next 60 days, North Korea must freeze and seal its five-megawatt reactor at Yongbyon, allow inspections by officials from the International Atomic Energy Agency, and make an inventory of all nuclear programmes. In return, it will receive 50,000 tonnes of heavy fuel oil or economic aid of equal value. The US will also begin the process of normalising diplomatic relations and removing North Korea from its list of state-sponsors of terrorism.

At the end of this period, a meeting will be held of foreign ministers from all countries at the talks, which also include China, South Korea, Japan and Russia. No deadline is set for North Korea to fully denuclearise, but if it takes irreversible concrete steps towards that goal it will be entitled to another 950,000 tonnes of fuel oil or an equivalent $290m in aid.

Once it dismantles all its atomic weapons programmes, South Korea has promised to supply 2,000 megawatts of electricity - worth $8.5bn - under an earlier agreement.

US concessions

The US side has made major concessions, agreeing to bilateral talks that it previously refused and promising to relax financial restrictions on North Korean-related accounts in Macau's Banco Delta Asia within the next month.

After announcing the deal at the Diaoyutai state guesthouse in Beijing, the Chinese envoy, Wu Dawei, said it marked important progress.

"This round of six-party talks marks an important and substantial step forward," Wu said earlier. "The six-party talks not only will benefit the peace, stability and development of the peninsula, but also serve to improve the relations of related sides and also benefit the building of a harmonious north-east Asia."

But there are many potential stumbling blocks, chief among which is North Korea's alleged uranium enrichment scheme. The current standoff was sparked in 2002, when the US accused Pyongyang of having an illegal uranium program - an accusation that North Korea has denied. Today's document makes no mention of uranium, but the subject cannot be avoided when the two sides begin to discuss an inventory of the North's atomic weapons programs over the next two months.

"We don't have an agreement at this point even on the existence of this program but I certainly have made very clear repeatedly that we need to ensure that we know precisely the status of that," Mr Hill said.

In Washington, such loopholes could prove a problem when the deal comes before Congress for approval. Even before it was adopted, John Bolton, former US ambassador to the UN called on George Bush to reject it.

"I am very disturbed by this deal," Mr Bolton told CNN. "It sends exactly the wrong signal to would-be proliferators around the world: 'If we hold out long enough, wear down the state department negotiators, eventually you get rewarded,' in this case with massive shipments of heavy fuel oil for doing only partially what needs to be done."

Relations with Japan

Potential problems also loom over North Korea's abduction of Japanese citizens in the 1970s and 80s. Leaders in Tokyo said they support the nuclear deal and, over the next 60 days, have promised to start talks aimed at normalising relations with North Korea. But they refuse to supply energy or other aid until the abduction issue is settled.

"We understand it marks the first concrete step by North Korea toward its nuclear dismantlement," the Japanese prime minister, Shinzo Abe, said after the accord was struck in Beijing. "But our position that Japan cannot provide support without a resolution of the abduction issue is unchanged."

Other statesmen said the deal was necessary, but appeared unlikely to break through the distrust on both sides that destroyed the 1994 Agreed Framework. North Korea is still technically at war with the US and South Korea, having never signed at peace treaty in the wake of the 1950-53 Korean war.

"This does not solve the problem in any fundamental way. But at the moment it is the best deal we can get. We must start somewhere," said Ham Seung-Joo, former foreign minister of South Korea. "The most we can hope is that one day we will look back and say this is the deal that kept North Korea from strengthening its nuclear arsenal."

One positive development in the latest agreement is that it was signed by all six of major regional players, unlike previous deals. But even inside the host nation China, there were questions about the long-term cost of backing down to Pyongyang.

"The six-party talks have taken a step towards accepting North Korea's nuclear blackmail," said Professor Zhang Liankui, a foreign affairs expert at the Central party school in Beijing. "This was supposed to be about regional security not aid. Other nations will take a lesson from North Korea's strategy: develop nuclear weapons and then ask for aid."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article ... 91,00.html

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:57 am 
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I have a feeling this news will grow and grow and grow.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:31 am 
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I've heard of countries stopping nuclear development before and most of the time don't they just keep on doing it but try and keep it secret?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:28 am 
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1. Hide constructed nukes in citizens' basements

2. Shut down nuclear reactor and pretend to be "clean"

3. ????

4. Profit

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:45 am 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:25 am 
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B wrote:
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I don't understand what the point of this is....pehaps you could elaborate as to what this cartoonist is trying to say.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:33 am 
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Really. If anything it should be the other way around. Clinton's decisions on NK are what led to them blowing up a nuclear weapon in the first place.

Ugh.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:44 am 
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LittleWing wrote:
Really. If anything it should be the other way around. Clinton's decisions on NK are what led to them blowing up a nuclear weapon in the first place.

Ugh.

Not true.

The cartoon is pretty spot on and basically means Bush took the circuitous route before eventually going down the Clinton road anyway.

Personally, it took a while but in the end Bush did the right thing and I'm happy this deal was made.

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 Post subject: Re: North Korea and US reach deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:09 am 
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invention wrote:
Potential problems also loom over North Korea's abduction of Japanese citizens in the 1970s and 80s.


I live right down the road from where one girl was kidnapped

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:35 am 
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Peter Van Wieren wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
Really. If anything it should be the other way around. Clinton's decisions on NK are what led to them blowing up a nuclear weapon in the first place.

Ugh.

Not true.

The cartoon is pretty spot on and basically means Bush took the circuitous route before eventually going down the Clinton road anyway.

Personally, it took a while but in the end Bush did the right thing and I'm happy this deal was made.


I assume the cartoon is finding some sort of fault with President Bush's method of dealing with North Korea.
By "circuitous route," are you referring to the six-party talks?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:37 pm 
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wait...didn't we do this already and N Korea took our stuff and continued to make nukes anyway?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:09 pm 
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kiddo wrote:
wait...didn't we do this already and N Korea took our stuff and continued to make nukes anyway?


Yes. But this deal has the potential to be better enforced. With Clinton's deal it was just the US and NK. Now Japan, Russia, South Korea, and most importantly China are all on board. I have no clue why we chose diplomacy here but not in Iraq but that's probobly for another thread. Good job Chris Hill. How is this guy not Asst. Sec. of State? I want to say Negropante has been nominated?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:50 pm 
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Why is this good? Why was what Clinton did good? He GAVE THEM the equipment they needed to make nukes in the first place. Who says this will be any different? Because more countries are involved? Hogwash.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:27 pm 
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LittleWing wrote:
Why is this good? Why was what Clinton did good? He GAVE THEM the equipment they needed to make nukes in the first place. Who says this will be any different? Because more countries are involved? Hogwash.


I think it will be different. Having China go along with this is a big step. That is where most of the NK aid comes from and I really think they made this deal out of pure desperation. I think we really just have to wait until Kim Jong Il's death for this issue to be compltley behind us. He is smart, he made a low grade nuke and got the worlds attention, and he preserved his power and got 300 million dollars worth of fuel out of the deal. I really don't think he gives a shit if inspectors come back in, he is all set.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:22 am 
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Dr. Gonzo wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
Why is this good? Why was what Clinton did good? He GAVE THEM the equipment they needed to make nukes in the first place. Who says this will be any different? Because more countries are involved? Hogwash.


I think it will be different. Having China go along with this is a big step. That is where most of the NK aid comes from and I really think they made this deal out of pure desperation. I think we really just have to wait until Kim Jong Il's death for this issue to be compltley behind us. He is smart, he made a low grade nuke and got the worlds attention, and he preserved his power and got 300 million dollars worth of fuel out of the deal. I really don't think he gives a shit if inspectors come back in, he is all set.


This is very true....North Korea is extremely dependent on China, and if China is on board and follows through, then North Korea will be very apt to living up to its end of the bargain. Of course North Korea has a bad track record, so we shall see.

Former President Clinton tried the bi-lateral approach and they screwed him over. He deserves credit for realizing the threat and taking action in this situation.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:49 am 
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LeninFlux wrote:
Peter Van Wieren wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
Really. If anything it should be the other way around. Clinton's decisions on NK are what led to them blowing up a nuclear weapon in the first place.

Ugh.

Not true.

The cartoon is pretty spot on and basically means Bush took the circuitous route before eventually going down the Clinton road anyway.

Personally, it took a while but in the end Bush did the right thing and I'm happy this deal was made.


I assume the cartoon is finding some sort of fault with President Bush's method of dealing with North Korea.
By "circuitous route," are you referring to the six-party talks?

I'm referring to the fact this same deal could have been made five years ago. Bush was wrong-headed in regards to North Korea for a while, but his policy changed and this is the result. I, for one, am glad of it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:04 am 
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LittleWing wrote:
Why is this good? Why was what Clinton did good? He GAVE THEM the equipment they needed to make nukes in the first place. Who says this will be any different? Because more countries are involved? Hogwash.

No, he didn't. Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about. Clinton's deal was to build N. Korea a couple light water reactors and a bunch of oil. In exchange N. Korea would freeze its plutonium. N. Korea did freeze its plutonium program, but secretly started up a uranium program in violation of plenty of arms control treaties. The US never fulfilled its side of the bargain either, though, as neither reactor was built and Congress refused to fund the implementation of the agreement. Later, Congress underfunded it, leading to late and insufficient oil shipments. Basically, neither side honored the agreement, but at the very least it postponed N. Korea building a nuclear weapon by some years.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:07 am 
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LeninFlux wrote:
Former President Clinton tried the bi-lateral approach and they screwed him over. He deserves credit for realizing the threat and taking action in this situation.

This isn't exactly true. For one, the new agreement is basically bilateral. It isn't a lot different from the Agreed Framework (which is why people like John Bolton hate it). And, as I've said in previous posts, both sides screwed the other over in the 90s. The same thing will happen again if Congress refuses to go along with the agreement. But really, even stalling as a result of Congressional complacency is better than what's been going on the last four years.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:06 pm 
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Peter Van Wieren wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
Peter Van Wieren wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
Really. If anything it should be the other way around. Clinton's decisions on NK are what led to them blowing up a nuclear weapon in the first place.

Ugh.

Not true.

The cartoon is pretty spot on and basically means Bush took the circuitous route before eventually going down the Clinton road anyway.

Personally, it took a while but in the end Bush did the right thing and I'm happy this deal was made.


I assume the cartoon is finding some sort of fault with President Bush's method of dealing with North Korea.
By "circuitous route," are you referring to the six-party talks?

I'm referring to the fact this same deal could have been made five years ago. Bush was wrong-headed in regards to North Korea for a while, but his policy changed and this is the result. I, for one, am glad of it.


Well, China wasn't on board 5 years ago so this deal could not have been made. But, as you said, I'm glad the deal is made. With China on board hopefully NK will not reneg on the deal.


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