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 Post subject: you know things have gone bad when....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:37 am 
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even tony blair wants to pull out...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/20/uk.iraq.troops/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

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LONDON, England (CNN) -- British Prime Minister Tony Blair will order nearly half the British troops in Iraq home by the end of 2007, British news outlets reported early Wednesday.

Blair will tell the House of Commons Wednesday that 1,500 soldiers will return to Britain within weeks, and 3,000 will follow suit by the end of the year, The Sun newspaper reported. Britain has a contingent of 7,000 in Iraq now, based mostly in the southern city of Basra.

"Control of the south of the country, unaffected by the civil war raging around Baghdad, will be handed back to the Iraqis," the Sun reported on page one. (Watch what may be the factors behind the decision )

The move comes a month after Blair said that an "arbitrary timetable" for withdrawal "would send the most disastrous signal to the people we are fighting in Iraq."

His anticipated announcement comes as the United States sends more troops into Iraq in an effort to put down a wave of sectarian violence in Baghdad and pacify Anbar province, the heart of the Sunni insurgency.

Blair had discussed his plans with U.S. President George W. Bush during a videoconference Tuesday morning, the White House said. It portrayed the news from Britain as a sign of progress in the nearly 4-year-old war.

"We're pleased that conditions in Basra have improved sufficiently that they are able to transition more control to the Iraqis," National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.

"The United States shares the same goal of turning responsibility over to the Iraqi Security Forces and reducing the number of American troops in Iraq."

A senior U.S. administration official compared Blair's plan to the one offered by the bipartisan Iraq Study Group in December.

In the coming months, the British military will consolidate its bases in the Basra area and in some cases hand them over to Iraqi authorities, Bush administration officials familiar with the British plan said.

This will enable British troops to focus on training Iraqi police and troops, while Iraqi units take a greater role in patrolling Basra's streets.

Opposition to the war has hurt Blair politically, with his ruling Labor Party losing seats in Parliament and in local elections in the past two years. The prime minister announced in September that he would leave office within a year.

More than 130 British troops have been killed in Iraq.

In January, when the United States announced plans to increase its contingent in Iraq by more than 20,000, British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said London would not be following suit.

Britain contributed about 46,000 soldiers, sailors and air force personnel to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. More than half those troops were withdrawn within two months of the invasion, leaving the remaining contingent in Basra.

Report of the withdrawal comes three days after reports that Prince Harry would deploy with his unit to Iraq in April or May. (Full story)

His father, Prince Charles, was a pilot with the Royal Air Force and Royal Navy.

Harry's grandfather, Prince Philip, had a distinguished career in the Royal Navy. Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was a Royal Navy pilot and served in the Falklands War against Argentina 25 years ago.


(sorry if this topic is elsewhere already)

i like how they say something about Prince Harry...it'd be interesting if him deploying is part of the reason they withdraw

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:47 am 
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british forces really don't do anything over there except control basra. basra is safe. so... they're not needed.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:53 am 
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i didn't mean to come off nasty but this story was already overblown.

first, we somewhat knew of this awhile ago.

second, we know british troops aren't there for much -- there's only 7,000 compared to how many u.s. forces... 125,000? they control one area.

third, they're selling it as a sign of success.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:09 am 
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My dad wanted to pull out but my mom wouldn't let him. Look at the fucking chaos that's caused.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:36 am 
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Quote:
Blair had discussed his plans with U.S. President George W. Bush during a videoconference Tuesday morning, the White House said. It portrayed the news from Britain as a sign of progress in the nearly 4-year-old war.


We're adding more troops because we're bloody losing, and Britain gets out and it's progress. George W. Bush is a brilliant soul. I swear to Christ on the cross, he really is.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:44 am 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
third, they're selling it as a sign of success.

Much easier to declare success where there's not much sectarian conflict.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:47 pm 
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Cut 'N Runners! Go eat your tea and crumpets, you limey pussies!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:52 pm 
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inadvertent imitation wrote:
My dad wanted to pull out but my mom wouldn't let him.

:dirty joke:
j/k

I don't blame the Brits. It's not their problem or OUR problem. It's a world problem. If you ask me, this is not a direct war. Terrorism can strike anywhere. If you ask me, if you pull out as our ally, you're on your own from now on.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:59 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
british forces really don't do anything over there except control basra. basra is safe. so... they're not needed.

basra is safe?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:01 pm 
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Hinny wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
third, they're selling it as a sign of success.

Much easier to declare success where there's not much sectarian conflict.

i suppose if by this you mean that shiite militias effectively control Basra you'd be correct. hardly seems like success, though.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:59 pm 
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likeatab wrote:
Hinny wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
third, they're selling it as a sign of success.

Much easier to declare success where there's not much sectarian conflict.

i suppose if by this you mean that shiite militias effectively control Basra you'd be correct. hardly seems like success, though.


well, right. since the shiites lead the government, they're considering that under control, i guess.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:17 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
likeatab wrote:
Hinny wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
third, they're selling it as a sign of success.

Much easier to declare success where there's not much sectarian conflict.

i suppose if by this you mean that shiite militias effectively control Basra you'd be correct. hardly seems like success, though.


well, right. since the shiites lead the government, they're considering that under control, i guess.


Well the Shiite militias are effectivley the security forces now for Basra, right?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:54 pm 
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Dr. Gonzo wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
likeatab wrote:
Hinny wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
third, they're selling it as a sign of success.

Much easier to declare success where there's not much sectarian conflict.

i suppose if by this you mean that shiite militias effectively control Basra you'd be correct. hardly seems like success, though.


well, right. since the shiites lead the government, they're considering that under control, i guess.


Well the Shiite militias are effectivley the security forces now for Basra, right?

great news unless you're a sunni.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:56 pm 
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likeatab wrote:
Dr. Gonzo wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
likeatab wrote:
Hinny wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
third, they're selling it as a sign of success.

Much easier to declare success where there's not much sectarian conflict.

i suppose if by this you mean that shiite militias effectively control Basra you'd be correct. hardly seems like success, though.


well, right. since the shiites lead the government, they're considering that under control, i guess.


Well the Shiite militias are effectivley the security forces now for Basra, right?

great news unless you're a sunni.


How many Sunnis are there in Basra? Isn't it pretty homogenous?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:04 pm 
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simple schoolboy wrote:
likeatab wrote:
Dr. Gonzo wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
likeatab wrote:
Hinny wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
third, they're selling it as a sign of success.

Much easier to declare success where there's not much sectarian conflict.

i suppose if by this you mean that shiite militias effectively control Basra you'd be correct. hardly seems like success, though.


well, right. since the shiites lead the government, they're considering that under control, i guess.


Well the Shiite militias are effectivley the security forces now for Basra, right?

great news unless you're a sunni.


How many Sunnis are there in Basra? Isn't it pretty homogenous?

i'm not sure it matters all that much, but i think it's something like 70-75% Shiite. the point is that having the place run by a fucking murderous islamist militia != secure.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:25 pm 
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likeatab wrote:
i'm not sure it matters all that much, but i think it's something like 70-75% Shiite. the point is that having the place run by a fucking murderous islamist militia != secure.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd think that Islamist militia activity would be more or less related to Sunni insurgent activity. The more often Sunnis car bomb something or other, the more often the Shias kidnap and execute Sunnis. I'm not saying that its good that a militia is in charge of Basra, just that I don't hear about all that much militia or insurgent activity there. If people aren't being dragged out of their homes as they are around Baghdad, then it is a relative sucess, but perhaps not because of any actions taken by the U.S. or Britain.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:28 pm 
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simple schoolboy wrote:
likeatab wrote:
i'm not sure it matters all that much, but i think it's something like 70-75% Shiite. the point is that having the place run by a fucking murderous islamist militia != secure.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd think that Islamist militia activity would be more or less related to Sunni insurgent activity. The more often Sunnis car bomb something or other, the more often the Shias kidnap and execute Sunnis. I'm not saying that its good that a militia is in charge of Basra, just that I don't hear about all that much militia or insurgent activity there. If people aren't being dragged out of their homes as they are around Baghdad, then it is a relative sucess, but perhaps not because of any actions taken by the U.S. or Britain.

Agreed.

One need not even use their imagination to say "it could be a lot worse".

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:35 pm 
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What I don't understand is why Prime Minister Tony Blair isn't committing these troops to Baghdad to increase the reinforcement level.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:45 pm 
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LeninFlux wrote:
What I don't understand is why Prime Minister Tony Blair isn't committing these troops to Baghdad to increase the reinforcement level.


because it's a bloody mess in baghdad.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:47 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
LeninFlux wrote:
What I don't understand is why Prime Minister Tony Blair isn't committing these troops to Baghdad to increase the reinforcement level.


because it's a bloody mess in baghdad.


Which is exactly why Britain should reassign these troops to Baghdad if they are no longer needed in Southern Iraq.


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