why do people love these so much? they're pretty sucky. 98 was alright, but really nothing special and 03 was sloppy as could be, especially the first night. I really don't understand the love for these shows.

I've heard MSG II 98, thought it was good, but terribly overrated. Guess one of those "had to be there" type of experiences. MSG I 03 was good, but if not for the rare songs and the amazing version of DTE, would just be any other show. MSG II 03 on the other hand is an outstanding show.

Get a time machine and go back and see Night I in '03. You'll understand why.

well the DVD kinda showcases how sucky that show was.

MSG II 98 is a great show and i dont even go much for the 98 tour

and MSG I 03 was the best show of 2003 and MSG II 03 was pretty chunky full of awesomeness too

IMO of course

MSG 1 deserves its praise. I'm going to have to watch this again soon.

i dont understand how you can think msg 1 '03 was a bad show

Please, any jackass who thinks MSG I sucks says so because they were not there. End of story.

i just love how you can speak your opinion about 'infamous' shows without being bashed because you dont conform with the masses.

Point well made.

Nobody is an idiot because they think a certain show sucks, f'risntance, I think Grand Rapids '06 sucks. Now, that's my opinion and other people's will vary greatly however nobody is right and nobody is wrong. It's just whatever floats your boat.

And c'mon, don't play the "you weren't there, man!" card - we all know that's the biggest cop out EVER. If a show were any good, it should be able to stand alone outside of the memory of those were there. Likewise, you may be at a show you thought was average on the night only to have you opinion changed when listening to the boot.

Anyway, this a longwinded way of saying, it's nigh on impossible to give a complete and unbiased view of a show's relative worth if you were actually present. There are so many varied factors that come into play about how much enjoyment you get out of a show that have zilch to do with the band's performance.

Anyway, you're all right - if you think it sucked, then you're right for you. If you think it was awesome, then you're right for you too; I just don't think you should tell someone who has an opposing view that they're wrong.

Now, can't we all just get along?

MSG2 2003 was the best show I have ever been to and I have been to 17 shows including the 3 Gorge shows in the past 2 years

Yeah well, I bet all other 13 shows were better than the 3 Gorge shows as well.

Gorge 2005 was pretty lame but I thought both Gorge shows in '06 were mind boggling awesome. Gorge 2 is supremely underrated, best performance of Rats in 2006 in my opinion.

Yeah, I was once again just attacking Gorge 05. I haven't even listened to any of the 06 shows (except a few of the first and a few Euro shows). Sorry.

I think the DVD doesn't do a very good job of capturing MSG I (I also thought night II was a better show--night one was average until the encore) but it is just an amazing venue to see a show at and those kinds of intangibles are hard to carry into a recording

didnt the bands love from msg 03 have something to do w/ the fan club seating? and thats why they made a dvd of it? great show, dont get me wrong, but i remember reading this somewhere.

i'm with cono and spenno, on this thread.

msg shows really are "had to be there" ones, which when listened to, don't carry over those intangible qualities.

not to say they don't exist and aren't worth their salt, but when i go to play a bootleg, you can rest assured it's not an MSG show, nor GR '06

(glad april fools is over)

MSG is probably the best venue to see an arena show. Theres just something about that place...

There was something about the Memorial Auditorium in Kitchener that no other place in the world has.

But basically, all New Yorkers and Boston & Seattle people can just fuck off.

You are just jealous.