http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6717119.stm

this dude is evil. so evil. his opponents he silences and he dismisses any form of sincere democratic process in russia.

oh and he pisses on most human rights.

oh and now he's aiming missiles at unknown targets in europe because the US is building some shields (which they fucking shouldn't, in the first place) in some easily persuaded countries.

fuck you, putin. i hope you die very soon and take your cold war with you.

Yeah, but he looks like Gandhi compared to 99% of Russia's past rulers.

i'd prefer yeltsin's corpse over him

Meh, Yeltsin basically paved the way for someone like Putin to swoop in.

yeltsin also prevented hard-line soviets from seizing power after gorbachev.

...and Lenin got Russia out of WW1.

Putin has also placed opposition candidates in the Gulag and presided over an increasingly authoritarian regime. The state now runs all but the print news media, he appoints his own legislature / regional governors, and is becoming quite belligerent. Meet the new Russia, same as the old Russia.

we should poison his tea.

And the US shouldn't be building a sheild because?

I have to agree with LW. Its a SHIELD, its up to the countries where the shield is being built to decide if they want or not. And if Putin dreams of the USA invading them or of conquering eastern europe again, he must be nuts, what i dont believe so, since he looks quite smart.

I think it's more a matter of using rhetoric like that to recreate the us-vs-them paranoia in Russia, and continue moving towards a more authoritarian gov.

He obviously isn't much of a threat to anybody West of his borders, which is why his gooberishness gets so little response.

call it a shield all you want but its still putting missiles in other countries and will only cause other nations to upgrade their missiles or like russia point them elsewhere, or build more of them or whatever. this missilie "sheild" is a waste of money and will only escalate tensions around the world, allies or enemies.

because it doesn't actually solve any problems?

LW you are oversimplifying the issue here. Russia has 140 million people and its workforce undereducated, dwindling, and its' state run energy programs are inefficient . For Russia to control its' mineral resources it must maintain its military supremacy over its former Eastern Bloc neighbors. If the U.S. provides countries, like Poland, with its missile defense technology they could easily be used to protect adjacent rogues states (think Chechnya). The argument is "well the U.S. wouldn't let Poland do that" and Russia's response is "just like we didn't provide Iran with F-16's, then turn around and give anti-aircraft weapons to Iraq." History does not support the theory that we can control our military technology once outsourced.

Anything that gives western nations a distinct military advantage is a threat to the authoritarian regime in Russia. "So what?" you ask, "why don't we assist in the subversion of an increasingly aggressive nation." Because they have lots of nukes lying around, care to guess what happens if the Russian Federation collapses? Best case scenario: the nuclear arsenal is liquidated to finance several simultaneous revolutions. Now thats some biblical style scary shit.

That, and it isn't even a practical defense system against Al-Qaeda or even North Korean agents who'd just as easily develop ways to sneak bombs in luggage. A missile defense system would just give opponents an incentive to develop more subversive technologies. Just like this "the US must dominate space" bs, it's escalation, not defense. The only longterm solution to nuke problems is to use the international stage to just get rid of them within the next several decades completely.

Not only that, but it is a total fucking waste of money when it could be going to something valuable, something human, like national health care or tax cuts for rich people.

I think you are trying to solve a different problem then the missile shield is designed for. It's not designed to stop a nuclear attack, it's designed to stop ICBM launched 'last resort' attacks. If North Korea were to fall, there has to be a way of stopping the Socialists from launch long range missiles at Japan/US. If successful, the shield will help that. The technologies spawned from the work (such as lasik eye surgery) also have value in the next generation of energy tools and weaponry. Missile defense is not nuclear weapon defense.

Putting missile defense into the former soviet bloc is not a way of restarting the cold war, it's to protect the EU against threats from Iran/Pakistan and other nuclear-capable nations in central Asia. Putin can and will capitalize on this to stir up nationalism in Russia, but nothing can be done about that from outside Russia. Change must be internal or it will fail.

I can see no solution to nuclear weapons. Once something is invented, it cannot be un-invented, and it cannot be restricted to just a few nations. Every nation has the right to use nuclear power and so every nation will have the capability to build nuclear weapons. No amount of diplomacy will stop that. All we can do is protect ourselves the best we can with technology and then change our foreign policy plan from 'fucking retarded' to... well.. just about anything else.

As for the US must dominate space, that's pretty clearly the case. If we don't, someone else (read: China) will. It is escalation, but it's all advances in defense technology can be viewed that way. We have already seen China blinding American spy satellites with ground bases lasers and just recently they launched a kinetic energy weapon against a dummy satellite as a proof of concept attack. Far too much of human civilization depends on space-based technologies not to aggressively defend them. Maybe it's political wrong for the US to charge ahead alone on this. Maybe. But who else has both the will and the capability and can be trusted?

well said.

Two best posts in RM history:



And then this gem!



BAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The international stage! Are you fucking serious? You're looking for a solution to all the worlds threats and you want to bring in the international community!! Oh Lord.

Thanks GV. I needed the pick-me-up.

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deathbyflannel: I understand where you're coming from. I guess I need to research it a little more. I was more under the impression that we're gonna operating this thing. Not a matter of, "Oh, we've been researching this crap for decades and it finally works, here's a kind gesture, do what you want with it!"

I know that history doesn't necessarily support the theory that we can control our military technology, and understand your concern about how this could impact Chechnya, but I think it's unfair to put a defensive mechanism in the same boat as an F-16.

I guess my ultimate stance would hinge upon who's working this system. If it's the US, operating a defensive system, something that can't possibly be construed as an aggressive measure, sure, go for it. I don't think I'd really trust too many eastern bloc nations with the technology though. Honestly, I'm not too concerned with Russia. They're non-players at this point.

So far as defending against Al Queda. Yeah, you're right there GV, it doesn't protect against suit case bombs. Suit case bombs are already a reality. Who cares. It's still sensible enough to me to put a defense system against ICBM's. To not defend against such attacks, when you can, because it doesn't prevent EVERYTHING, is silly. If it were to stop just ONE missile, it'd be worth the cost of gold.

Oh yeah, I largely agree with BI

Most obnoxious response in RM history? Picturing you gloating like a child is a great way to start my afternoon btw. But good, you took the bait.

Missile defense systems are sci-fi fantasy. The "tests" only seem to work half the time and it would take years to install in America alone. Where are we going to put these things? In every major city? What about western European countries who refuse to have it installed? You're probably in love with the concept, but there's no substance to back it up.

It's sci-fi fantasy and it's never going to happen. And yeah, admittedley the only things worse than diplomacy are a) developing bigger bombs (which Republicans love) or b) building laser beams on the outskirts of every major American city. Why on earth would any civilian want this after 60+ years worth of horror? You'd make a shitty salesperson. Rogue nations like Pakistan, North Korea, and Iran should be dealt with accordingly. NK and Iran were never on the verge of developing nuclear weapons until a Republican administration full of hotheads took office. And aside from North Korea, which is still marginalized by virtually every nation on earth, all these countries have (and will always have) dissident/democratic movements opposed to such ways of ruling. So instead we're going to retrigger the Cold War, alienate allies, waste a shitload of money, scare the crap out of the population, and encourage groups like Al-Qaeda to sneak in suit case bombs on a NY subway or at Israel's doorstep. Great plan!

Um, you do realize that "developing nuclear weapons" takes more than just 6 years, don't you?