About playing shows in the South .. I have been itching to say this for a while, since two summers in a row have left me disappointed about no southern U.S. dates.

PJ isn't playing the south and are playing far more extensively in Europe than ever before. The European fans "deserve" the shows more ... these shows draw loving crowds of tens of thousands.

Last show I was at in the southern U.S. (Birmingham 2003), they had to move to a smaller building since they couldn't fill the arena there and even then the venue was just 2/3 full. And the crowd was 'meh' at best .. I heard so many people bitching before, during, and after the show.

It has to be tons more rewarding for the band to play in Europe or Australia ... places that they in many cases love to visit and in some cases have never been before (and they get a hero's welcome).

I live in the south and I sure wish PJ would come down here, but not only should they be able to play wherever and whenever they please, it makes sense that they don't play the south after the tepid 2003 southern leg. When they are in ridiculously high demand in three-quarters of the world, why would they play places where the demand was less high just out of illusory obligiation?

wise beyond your years...

my only addendum would be them bypassing Phoenix, but New Mexico and eastward, I think your take is spot on.

Thanks! And I bet Phoenix (that is such a large market and growing) will see a show before long (I wouldn't mind flying out there .. I saw some of the World Baseball Classic there last year, great city!).

And considering the number of shows they've played in Philly and Boston in recent years .. I bet the places that develop a reputation as PJ strongholds will always get shows.

Stop trying to kiss my ass, Isaac.

This is a valid point, but the answer is relatively simple. Less shows and/or smaller venues. Tepid crowd in Alabama, eliminate that show. Small crowds in North Carolina, play one show instead of two. Can't fill a 10,000 seat arena in New Orleans, play a smaller theater of 2,000, hell, play two shows. It just take a little imagination and flexibility to changed conditions.

So they won't be able to rake in the dough at the same rate they can in New York or Boston or Philly, but I doubt it's a losing proposition if planned properly. I mean, the number of bands who can actually fill the places they play is very few, and there are tons of bands that make a living touring.

Eliminating an entire leg of a tour over problems like this however is NOT a good reaction if they want to keep ANY fans in those regions. You can't just blow off Texas and Florida because Birmingham sucked.

Spot on. Living in the Phoenix area I was surprised they didn't come here last tour because it has been a constant on previous tours and we are fifth in population, not that it really is a deal-breaker. Not a big deal since I made the San Diego show but still surprised they didn't make it to PHX.

Gimme a break.

Please elaborate.

I agree with you there. I don't mean to say Birmingham is indicative of every show in the south.

But also, I think it may we may be looking at things with our super-fan glasses on if we think they would want to play a 2,000 capacity venue in the south just to please their fans down here. If none of the guys had lives outside of Pearl Jam, they'd probably come down south and play smaller venues.

And I also don't think many people - for example - living in Texas would completely abandon a band they care about because they aren't touring in their neck of the woods anymore. Some artists, like Tom Waits, hardly ever go on the road at all and I don't think his fans are mad at him for it.

While I give them a mulligan for the B'ham date (the '98 show was very good) even Atlanta had a couple thousand unsold tickets. I think they will play here again someday but until then I'm going to have try and see them on the road, like my Ohio trip last year. I've come to accept that and am fortunate enough to be able to so.

Understood.

Personally, I'm past "superfan" in my PJ life these days, and for that very reason, I won't travel to see the band. I'm somewhat more than a casual fan, but that's all, and if they don't play within an hour or two of my house, I'm just not going to the show.

Most fans are like me, or even more casual. If they can see PJ in a short trip, they will go. If they have to buy a plane ticket or get a hotel, they probably won't. If the band doesn't play a region for 5 years, there will be less fans of the casual type, and the "not playing because the crowds are small" becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.


If an artist never tours anywhere, fans will not expect that person to tour their area. However, if a band is KNOWN for touring, and in fact tours the world but excludes an area, the fans in that area might be excused for taking it personally.

I think his earlier point speaks to this-- choosing to play locales in which they are greeted with a hero's welcome, or choosing to play locales or venues in which every other US city would have sold out the day tickets went on sale.

Europeans didn't get the band for 6 years and they LOVED Binaural and Riot Act; how many Euro fans jumped ship after 2003, 2004, and 2005 with the band playing the globe sans Europe? Probably very few because they don't feel entitled to a concert.

When people begin to quit the band or demote their status as a fan in reaction to the band not playing a portion of the country which didn't come out in the same way EVERY OTHER CITY REGARDLESS OF NATIONALITY did, I criticsize their decision, and as I said before, I tend to think "Not For You" applies to those defectors, "And you dare say/It belongs to you."

All that said, I really do believe Phoenix got dicked over in 2006. Every other city, I don't sympathize with, but not playing Phoenix?!??

But a casual fan won't think "I can't believe they are playing the entire northeast corridor this year but not down here" , they won't know the band's tour itinerary; they probably won't know they are touring at all. There will be somewhat of a process of attrition if the band is out of the public eye in a market; they will lose some fans. But very few fans would feel wronged.

And I don't think Pearl Jam cares about losing a few fans in the south by not staying active down there. After a career of maintaining integrity by doing what they want to do, it would almost be against their ethos to continue coming down south to play shows just to please people that have come to expect a show. Especially when they can play to bigger, (usually) more appreciative crowds elsewhere.

checkmate






the king is dead

Good points. Two things.

The casual fans may not know about the rest of the world tour, and may not even notice that PJ is not touring their area, but as you said, there is a process of attrition with people simply losing interest after a long absence. That said, I think that there are more people than you give credit for who know a tour is happening, but also know there are no shows near them. It's not just hardcores like people on RM & synergy. We are teh ones who "take it personally" though.

We will almost all come running back when a show does come to our area, and maybe the band is calculating that into their equation. "Yeah, we'll lose a few "casual" fans by skipping an area for five years, but those fans that are our true base will forgive us and come back when we finally show up." True or not, it's taking people for granted.

The other thing is about the "maintaining integrity". That's an idea that gets thrown about a bit too loosely when discussing this band, and in this case, it's a sword that cuts both ways. Do they "maintain integrity" by only playing those places that they want to play, where they will get the largest and most enthusiastic welcome from the crowd? Or do they maintain integrity by doing what small town boy Jeff has always tried to do and play a few smaller markets (like Boise, Missoula, Cedar Rapids, Grand Forks, Birmingham, etc...) on each tour? The entire Canadian tour was an example of this.

Did PJ get booed in Texas in 2003? In Alabama, Nashville, Kansas City, Phoenix? No. Did they get booed in New York and Denver, and did they go back and play those places in 2006? Yeah, they did.

I've always maintained that the "snub" of the South in 2006 was about choosing Europe over us, and being that Europe hadn't seen a tour in six years, I have no problem with that choice. I just want someone who actually knows the answer to why, like a band member or someone in PJ's management team to TELL US, so we can stop having all of this speculation about why it may or may not have happened. The communication from PJ in the past 3 years has sucked a fat dick, and nobody should be allowed to contend that "the band does so much for us" anymore, because in fact, they don't do anything more than any other band.

Once upon a time, they did.

we know where we disagree, but otherwise, spot on.

addendum: communication from Pearl Jam has always sucked a fat dick.

people hide behind 'maintaining integrity'

going to play shows half the world away for a hungrier fanbase is not a violation of their integrity be it playing their '97 Oakland Stones warm up in Santa Cruz instead of San Francisco, or playing Europe instead of the South

This time in Europe, they are there to make up for the show they missed by playing the south in 2003. PJ's next major tour will be partly in the South and Europe will not be visited and the score will be settled.

conoalias, did I not tell you the setlist would be similar to Leeds or Reading?

Totally Agree.. but seriously it sucks there are a lot of fans that are just gettin screwed down there it could seriously work if they did smaller(ish) venues of 3-8,000 it would make the diehards happy at least , i find that the thing that bothers me the most is that most american fans think they "deserve" shows and here you are saying "i wish they would but i understand why they dont" where most poeple are like "oh we deserve a show" for what reson do you "deserve" a show . Im pretty sure Europe had a few cancelled shows in 00 after roskilde and then a whole slew of shows, like scheduled and booked cancelled in 03 for whatever reason ? correct me if im wrong.

it seems like lately theyve been rewarding places that were previously given the short end of the stick for whatver reason , san fran hadnt had a show since the golden gate 95 show they got a 3 night last year. europe had those cancelletions so they got a whole leg in 06 and a handful of shows this year of places they missed last time (denmark, poland, london) although the crazy crowds helped a bit too.

anywyas its glad to hear a good opinion on the south from someone in the south ... im sure theyll be in your neck of the woods at some point in the next few years.

Good things come to those who wait

Euhm...

There were 2 cancellations in 2000:

Belgium: got a show in 2006, the first ever
Holland: who got Pinkpop in 2000, but didn't get a non-festival show: got Arnhem

That's all.

Places in 2007:

Well... I partly disagree, if they would have played places they forgot in 2006, how the fuck can they not be playing Sweden/Norway/Scotland? But 4 shows in Germany (who got one last year), 1 in Italy (who got 5 last year) is apparently nothing strange. And Portugal again. And Spain again. I don't know, guys. I'm glad they're in Europe again, but euh... well... their tour manager is a guy on dope.

Also,
don't ever say that again. It makes me think too much of that bloody early rejoicing announcement. It's bullshit. It's fucking bullshit. It's just a very poor excuse, which I hate. And I've got nothing to complain about now, but my god, ever since Werchter 2000 got cancelled, I read "good things come to those who wait"...

i agree, as do most im sure. But europe gets a tour ever 5-6 year son average. So, skipping hte south fo rone tour is not a big deal. ANd lets be honest, pearl jam will make it up and WILl play the south. And when they do, i hope you fucking southerners show them what they missed and rock the bands fucking faces off.

I have been to shows in New Mexico and Texas the last 7+ years and they have always had a good turnout, so I dont think that was the case.

Skipping over certain venues/cities is one thing, but to skip the entire southern region of the US? A bit strange. ***insert conspiracy theory here***