I was thinking about this the other day. What a song has to have to be truly epic. Obviously they have to be 10+ minutes long, but there is more.

Almost no song lasts for over 10 minutes without having different parts, or movements. A song that long always risks becoming boring, so there has to be variation and progression within each movement and from one movement to the next. Songs like this also risk losing their identity, this is probably the most common problem that keeps such long songs from being truly epic. A song has lost it's identity if you forget what the original theme was because the subsequent movements didn't tie in well enough, or were too drastic.

The perfect epic song is one which keeps you attentive throughout the whole thing, just like you were listening to 2-3 minute songs, but it should never feel like it isn't the same song that it started as or like there is no more resemblance or connection. A perfect epic song will use each movement to add a twist to the first, and can continue to reuse parts by using variations in the instrumentation and style.

Godspeed is a band that comes immediately to many peoples mind when epics are mentioned. In fact, I only consider a couple Godspeed songs true epics. They are all very long, always over 10 and often 20 minutes, but Sleep and Dead Flag Blues are probably the only ones that actually fit my criteria.

Some examples of what I consider true epics:

Moonsorrow - Jaasta Syntynyt/Varjojen Virta (Born of Ice/Stream of Shadow *english*) (30:10) - This is probably the most perfect example of an epic song. At 30:10, there are two things this song never does. First, it never bores you. It is literally 30 minutes of captivating, thrilling, and beautiful metal. Second, there is never a glimmer of doubt that the song is the same one that it started as. This song only uses 3 or so different parts. The main part is introduced after about 8 minutes of atmospheric and acoustic metal, and is carried through at least 10 different phases, interchanging with the secondary part, until the end of the song. One of the reasons this song is so incredible is the limited styles it consists of. It doesn't go beyond pure folk metal. The instruments stay the same, yet whoever wrote this song was a good enough writer to add a tangible and significant change to each turn of the main theme. Can't say enough about this song. Look for it at the very top of my 2007 songs list.

Weakling - This Entire Fucking Battlefield (14:47) - Perhaps my favorite metal song ever. This song has such strong emotions that they almost seem physically tangible. There are basically 3 parts, with 2 interludes. The first radiates insanity. This part kind of gently morphs into a movement that I feel represents descent or deterioration. The song hits rock bottom and slows, and the quiet interlude leads to the last movement which is of excruciating pain and suffering. Listen to the song and you will have no doubt as to what I'm talking about.

No way anyone is reading all this so I'll shorten the rest. Here are some other songs I consider truly and effectively epic.

Yes - And You And I
GY!BE - Sleep
Tortoise - DJed
Mogwai - My Father, My King
Deathspell Omega - Carnal Malefactor
DJ Shadow - Stem / Long Stem / Transmission 2
Smashing Pumpkins - Starla

Epic songs are probably the hardest to do right, but when they are they are impossible to beat. Not coincidentally, that list has some of my favorite songs of all time.

Note that I am not including ambient or classical music in the description or on the list, because often they are separated into parts in the actual tracklisting when the whole album could easily be considered one long song.

First person that mentions how I or this thread are pretentious gets a cookie, signed and baked by yours truly.

I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW PRETENTIOUS THIS THREAD IS

international shipping alright ?

Yes. Extremely stale cookie alright?

they're my favorites

Floyd - Shine on You Crazy Diamond

Probably the most epic classic rock song out there.

Various versions of Dazed and Confused by Led Zeppelin.

Probably the best one I've ever heard is from the 4/1/71 BBC show at the Paris Cinema in London. The song is structured, as intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, jam, violin bow solo, fast jam (mostly solo), breakdown, buildup, verse, chorus, soft jam, outro. The jams are pretty consistent melody-wise, but the solos are always freestyle (while still retaining a solid structure).

Other great versions are 5/24/75 (38 min version), Long Beach and NYC '73. No two versions are the same, but these performances are truly epic performances every single time.

Forgot about that one.

Even though it's separated on discs, all 8? 10? parts of this song constitutes Pink Floyd's greatest epic, for sure. Great pick.

For the record, I don't consider "jams" to be epic, though they are usually very long. Unfortunately that counts out a couple of my favorite bands, like Grateful Dead and Allman Brothers.

Sleater-Kinney - Let's Call It Love

Everything on this track sounds really good. Big drums, and awesome riffs.

I don't think 10 minutes is necessarily the benchmark for a truly epic song.

Neither do I.

Stem / Long Stem is only 8 minutes and I listed it. But the shorter it is the harder it is for me to consider it an epic.

shortest genuinely epic song? how bout paranoid android

Live versions of "Silverfuck". Some of them are epically bad or boring, but some others are the craziest, most awesome shit ever.

Nice thread.

Very good call my friend. I could definitely see myself supporting that nomination. A great example.

Another 2 I had been meaning to mention:

Yndi Halda - We Flood Empty Lakes
Agalloch - Fire Above, Ice Below

edit: added one!

I was just going on your first paragraph.

Yeah. 10 minutes is kind of just a range I look for when considering epics. It's not absolute by any means, why should it be?

I whole heartedly disagree with the notion that an "epic" song must be over 10 minutes. Not that I haven't heard enough ten minute tracks, but there's a good handful of 6-10 minute songs that I'd consider epic.

Some good ones (of all lengths):

Sonic Youth- The Diamond Sea [19:35]
Spiritualized- Cop Shoot Cop [17:13]
Yo La Tengo- Blue Line Swinger [9:18]
British Sea Power- Lately [13:59]
Television- Marquee Moon [10:40]
The Stone Roses- I Am The Resurrection [8:13]
The Brian Jonestown Massacre- Cabin Fever [7:55]
Bruce Springsteen- Incident on 57th Street [7:45]
Do Make Say Think- Fredericia [9:37]

I'm sure there's a few more that I'll regret putting in this post later.

can Stairway to Heaven be considered a slow epic song?

Achilles Last Stand is pure epicness