While reading this interesting thread (except for the 'I've heard those tracks but can't share it with you' discussion) something came up to me, and I think it deserves it's own post. I always like to speculate and hypothesize about PJ, 'what if..' discussions are always my favorites so feel free to join in .
http://www.theskyiscrape.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1910112#1910112




As I stated above it's clearly that there are wheels and reels of tracks that were not included on avocado. Partly because it was their hardest and most time consuming recording session as a collective band. Well, what to do with these tracks?

Let me introduce you to Monster? You know, the REM record, this was also an exhausting and time consuming effort for REM, some new bandmembers, new ideas on how to sound and a Peter Buck who wants this record to be their most rocking effort above anything else . This process resolved in an excellent (underrated imo) record for REM. But it also left them with tons of ideas and leftovers. REM found and excellent way to cope with this! They re-recorded some of those tracks during soundchecks, they booked some studio time in between touring and just remixed some of those Monster tracks. And before you knew it that had like 14 tracks, those 14 tracks would make one of their finest efforts to date (and imho one of the best records of the 90s) New Adventures in Hi-Fi..

So it's probably clear by now. I think I would make a hell of a record if PJ just did some recording this summer, in between touring. Let Brett Eliason cut some soundchecks, book a studio whenever you have a track. Poulish some rough mixes from the avocado sessions. And before you know it you have a record, a record with a different feel than avocado. A record that could have the same urgent atmosphere as Vitalogy or the same relax vibe as No Code. Those 2 records are somehow recorded with the same philosophy, and they are also my personal favorites, for me PJ is at his best here! (some recent examples: save you or moth)

Thanks for reading, and who feels the same on this philosophy?

I think it sounds great, but like you said it's a big "what if?"

I'd be all for it--isn't that kinda similar to how they did vitalogy?

at any rate, I think good live bands should try and record on the road more often--it gives the music extra energy

There was another band who did a similar thing. Their name is Metallica. Load/ReLoad. Actually I like ReLoad, it's a good album, but if I was introduced to it today as opposed to at age 9 or 10, that might be a lot different.

Love, love, love the idea. I have no idea why a band would book studio time only to cut the track without trying to perfect it ( Riot Act). At least if they did this live, there'd be some energy that gets lost in the studio mix. I don't foresee it happening, but if it did, I'd be more excited for the next album than I was for S/T.

yeah that'd be pretty cool. much more spontaneous and not as overproduced as well. love the idea.

I think our outlook regarding how PJ does stuff is pretty similar

cause sometimes raweness and imperfections are better left unedited.

(no, this is not the csae for riot act, but generally speaking)

well with that sometimes caveat in there this is hard to argue with

I think Frank's remark about Riot Act was that the band recorded a bunch of songs and then called it an album and released it, but in reality, it was just a mound of clay that lacked the shaping and polishing that was needed--a different kind of thing than accepting "takes" which entail a member missing a note, or halfway strumming the wrong chord, or not getting the solo QUITE there, but almost--that rawness and imperfection is different than not allowing a song to be fostered and cultivated

Yeah, I like this idea.
To go back to the original post, I agree about the Monster/New Adventures things. While Monster is a brilliant album, you can tell REM took a lot of time into (over) producing. Regardless you have some of my favorite REM tracks there... Kenneth, Star 69 and Strange Currencies. Then you get New Adventures and it's just so relaxed and carefree in it's approach. Sure some of the songs kick you in the ass and some are beautiful... but no matter what, it feels IMMEDIATE and NOW. Does that make sense?

Modern Pearl Jam records (especially Riot Act) lack that immediacy that you can feel on Vs, Vitalogy and NC. On those records you feel like you're in the studio with them. A quick, live-off-the-floor album at this point would be VERY refreshing for PJ.

Having said that. I really don't think it's going to happen.

I dearly wish PJ would read this and at least consider it, if they haven't already... They definitely need a fresh "vibe" to their recordings.. I too think Avocado was way over-produced, it just sounds too smooth, there's no *dust and scratches* in the background, and I miss that.
Recording an album like they were playing live would be awesome, and I would love to hear the Avocado B-sides, 'cause I have a feeling I might actually like them better than the original album itself.

We're going on an adventure, Charlie!

Stay clear of the avocado.
It rocks.

... but in all honesty they need to start from scratch.

That's an interesting idea. Isn't it true that Vs. is the only album that they actually cut mostly live plus a couple of songs from Riot Act? It would be a lot of work to get the arrangements together live during a tour, but it could be really interesting, especially if they were debuting the songs as they were recording them. I'm not a big rem fan, so I don't know, but was every song on the album fully arranged and ready to play when they were recorded?

Riot Act HAD that immediacy. it's just that the songs weren't very good, or the band wasn't all that interesting in that immediate moment

I'm suprised people are talking about S/T feeling overproduced. That's always struck me as a very raw record

That would be a great thing to do, if possible... and New Adventures in Hi-Fi is a very good album...

I love Avocado, so I don't have much negative to say. But while the songs themselves are raw/edgy the actual production is quite sharp. In general, PJ have never really been overproduced, but alot of us tend to like the less-produced raw albums like Vs/Vitalogy/NC.

Raw/Live PJ = Best PJ

Yes?

I might be wrong but i don't percieve any of their albums as being a collection of songs put together on a given schedulle. In other words i don't think they work with the philosophy "time to do a new album, let's write some songs". It seems more like the songs come around naturaly for the big part and then there's some reckonsidering of left overs or older stuff, one for all better men. So my guess is the new album will have at least 60% of post avocado material, and at some point there will be a lost dogs 2 and they will play some songs live every now and then. I doupt they'll record new material on the road anytime soon if they will continue to change setlist as they do now, it would be very difficult to record at the high standards they are recording.