Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 77 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:48 am 
Offline
User avatar
too drunk to moderate properly
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm
Posts: 39068
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA
Gender: Male
:shock:

Quote:
Lawmakers seek to stop anti-war T-shirts from naming dead soldiers
By Howard Fischer
Capitol Media Services
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 05.14.2007

PHOENIX -- State lawmakers voted Monday to enact new laws designed to stop the sale of anti-war T-shirts with the names of dead soldiers -- a measure a veteran media lawyer says is "unconstitutional about three or four different ways."

On a 28-0 margin, the Senate agreed to make it punishable by up to a year in jail to use the names of deceased soldiers to help sell goods. The measure, SB 1014, also would let families go to court to stop the sales and collect damages.

Dan Frazier, a Flagstaff businessman who is selling the T-shirts that have caused all the fuss, told Capitol Media Services he doesn't intend to halt the sale of the $20 shirts even if Gov. Janet Napolitano signs the measure. He said it's an illegal infringement on his First Amendment rights.

Rep. Jonathan Paton, R-Tucson, a backer of the measure, doesn't see it that way. He said because Frazier is selling his shirts for a profit means it is not constitutionally protected political speech.

But attorney Dan Barr said the question of whether someone makes money is legally irrelevant.

"The fact that these people died in Iraq is nothing more than a fact," Barr said. And he said listing their names on a T-shirt -- whether sold or given away -- doesn't change that.

The shirts at issue feature the words "Bush Lied/They Died" superimposed over the names of more than 3,000 soldiers who have died since the U.S. invaded Iraq. Frazier has since come up with some variants, including one that says on one side "Support our Remaining Troops," with "Bring the Rest Home Alive" on the other.

Paton said anyone is free to put all those names on a placard and hold it up in the town square.

"It's about you selling or profiting off those soldiers' names the way somebody would off of (pop singer) Britney Spears," he said.

"I really don't see it as trading on the names (of the soldiers) the same way somebody selling a Celine Dion T-shirt is trading on her name," said Frazier.

And Barr said the T-shirts at issue do not show a single identifiable soldier, like Pat Tillman, where someone might buy the shirt solely because it features the photo of the former Arizona Cardinals safety.
"The names of all these people are public record," Barr said. "It's not like they're taking something that isn't in the public domain already."
Paton said the law is legally defensible, noting there are exceptions for news reports and even in books, plays, music as well as film or videos as long as these items, by themselves, are not selling anything else.
But Barr said that just proves how flawed the language is.

"Books and plays are done to make money," he said. And Barr said that the measure puts the government in the position of deciding things like what is "an original work of fine art," something the courts have said is impermissible.

Frazier said it will take a court order to stop him from selling the shirts. But he said he hopes it doesn't come to that.

"It's just a hassle for me if I've got to fight this sort of stuff in court," he said.

And Frazier said he is hoping Napolitano vetoes the measure. Gubernatorial press aide Jeanine L'Ecuyer said the governor will not comment on the bill until she sees it. But a veto would be the only negative vote against it: It cleared both the House and Senate without dissent.

Frazier said all the publicity about the legislation has had one positive effect. "It always boosts my sales of my shirts," he said.


http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/183041.php

Image

Buy the shirt here!

_________________
"Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:48 am 
Offline
User avatar
Supersonic
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:09 pm
Posts: 10839
Location: metro west, mass
Gender: Male
what are the pros and cons?

pros: honoring our troops and display yourself as an example of someone who directly lost a love one.

cons: people making money off the war? :shock:

_________________
"There are two ways to enslave and conquer a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt." -John Adams


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:53 am 
Offline
User avatar
Stone's Bitch
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:41 am
Posts: 5867
Location: Providence, RI
Gender: Male
I want my share of that shirt being sold at graduation that had all the graduates' names on it!

_________________
"I wish that I believed in fate / I wish I didn't sleep so late"

"The real truth about it is: no one gets it right / The real truth about it is: we’re all supposed to try"


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:08 am 
Offline
User avatar
In a van down by the river
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:15 am
Posts: 33031
Simple Torture wrote:
I want my share of that shirt being sold at graduation that had all the graduates' names on it!


arent those only sold to graduates?

_________________
maybe we can hum along...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:50 am 
Offline
User avatar
Administrator
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:44 pm
Posts: 8910
Location: Santa Cruz
Gender: Male
B wrote:
a measure a veteran media lawyer says is "unconstitutional about three or four different ways."


That's almost an understatement.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar
In a van down by the river
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:15 am
Posts: 33031
Buggy wrote:
B wrote:
a measure a veteran media lawyer says is "unconstitutional about three or four different ways."


That's almost an understatement.


no its not an understatement, it just has to be done legally, as in getting permission to use everyones name

_________________
maybe we can hum along...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:35 am
Posts: 1311
Location: Lexington
Peeps wrote:
Buggy wrote:
B wrote:
a measure a veteran media lawyer says is "unconstitutional about three or four different ways."


That's almost an understatement.


no its not an understatement, it just has to be done legally, as in getting permission to use everyones name


Negative. These names are part of the public domain, and he is not profiting over the sale of their likeness, just their names. If the each soldier's name were trademarked then yes, he would require permission. However, they are not. He could put all of our names on a t-shirt and it would be legitimate as well. What he is doing is completely legal, offensive, but legal.

Freedom of expression baby.

_________________
punkdavid wrote:
Make sure to bring a bottle of vitriol. And wear a condom so you don't insinuate her.

--PunkDavid


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar
In a van down by the river
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:15 am
Posts: 33031
deathbyflannel wrote:
Peeps wrote:
Buggy wrote:
B wrote:
a measure a veteran media lawyer says is "unconstitutional about three or four different ways."


That's almost an understatement.


no its not an understatement, it just has to be done legally, as in getting permission to use everyones name


Negative. These names are part of the public domain, and he is not profiting over the sale of their likeness, just their names. If the each soldier's name were trademarked then yes, he would require permission. However, they are not. He could put all of our names on a t-shirt and it would be legitimate as well. What he is doing is completely legal, offensive, but legal.

Freedom of expression baby.


i was under the impression that every person is entitled to the rights of their own name and that name can not be used for a profit with out compensation

_________________
maybe we can hum along...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:49 pm
Posts: 9495
Location: Richie-Richville, Maryland
Peeps wrote:

i was under the impression that every person is entitled to the rights of their own name and that name can not be used for a profit with out compensation



I don't think that's true unless your name is copyrighted.

_________________
you get a lifetime, that's it.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm
Posts: 9282
Location: Atlanta
Gender: Male
Peeps wrote:
deathbyflannel wrote:
Peeps wrote:
Buggy wrote:
B wrote:
a measure a veteran media lawyer says is "unconstitutional about three or four different ways."


That's almost an understatement.


no its not an understatement, it just has to be done legally, as in getting permission to use everyones name


Negative. These names are part of the public domain, and he is not profiting over the sale of their likeness, just their names. If the each soldier's name were trademarked then yes, he would require permission. However, they are not. He could put all of our names on a t-shirt and it would be legitimate as well. What he is doing is completely legal, offensive, but legal.

Freedom of expression baby.


i was under the impression that every person is entitled to the rights of their own name and that name can not be used for a profit with out compensation


Interesting question, because the NCAA uses everything but the name and likeness of it's players to earn millions of dollars from video game sales. The video game character corresponds to the real players but there are no faces or names. Then there are the Jersey sales. Yeah there is no Bush on the back of it, but everyone knows when they are buying a 5 jersey from USC it's a Reggie Bush jersey.

I guess there is a way around everything if you know the right legal loophole.

_________________
Attention Phenylketonurics: Contains Phenylalanine


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Stone's Bitch
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:41 am
Posts: 5867
Location: Providence, RI
Gender: Male
Peeps wrote:
Simple Torture wrote:
I want my share of that shirt being sold at graduation that had all the graduates' names on it!


arent those only sold to graduates?


Nope, everyone and their mother was buying them, and I was never asked permission.

_________________
"I wish that I believed in fate / I wish I didn't sleep so late"

"The real truth about it is: no one gets it right / The real truth about it is: we’re all supposed to try"


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Stone's Bitch
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:41 am
Posts: 5867
Location: Providence, RI
Gender: Male
Peeps wrote:
deathbyflannel wrote:
Peeps wrote:
Buggy wrote:
B wrote:
a measure a veteran media lawyer says is "unconstitutional about three or four different ways."


That's almost an understatement.


no its not an understatement, it just has to be done legally, as in getting permission to use everyones name


Negative. These names are part of the public domain, and he is not profiting over the sale of their likeness, just their names. If the each soldier's name were trademarked then yes, he would require permission. However, they are not. He could put all of our names on a t-shirt and it would be legitimate as well. What he is doing is completely legal, offensive, but legal.

Freedom of expression baby.


i was under the impression that every person is entitled to the rights of their own name and that name can not be used for a profit with out compensation


What about everyone else in the world that has that name? If I started selling shirts that said, "Larry Smith is a pole smoker," would I have to compensate every man in this country named Larry Smith?

_________________
"I wish that I believed in fate / I wish I didn't sleep so late"

"The real truth about it is: no one gets it right / The real truth about it is: we’re all supposed to try"


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar
too drunk to moderate properly
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm
Posts: 39068
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA
Gender: Male
Simple Torture wrote:
What about everyone else in the world that has that name? If I started selling shirts that said, "Larry Smith is a pole smoker," would I have to compensate every man in this country named Larry Smith?


I'd buy that shirt! But you'd have to change it to "Larry Smith smokes pole."

_________________
"Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar
In a van down by the river
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:15 am
Posts: 33031
Simple Torture wrote:
What about everyone else in the world that has that name? If I started selling shirts that said, "Larry Smith is a pole smoker," would I have to compensate every man in this country named Larry Smith?


theres a difference....larry smith could be many people who smokes poles, but larry smith who was killed in iraq/afghan is someone specific

_________________
maybe we can hum along...


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar
See you in another life, brother
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:01 pm
Posts: 13165
Gender: Male
Whats funny is that probably noone hear heard about this guy and shirts before. Now their state senate goes and gives him the kind of advertisement you can't buy.

I'm thinking his sales are exploding in the wake of this.

_________________
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."
-- John Steinbeck


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar
too drunk to moderate properly
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm
Posts: 39068
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA
Gender: Male
aprilfifth wrote:
Whats funny is that probably noone hear heard about this guy and shirts before. Now their state senate goes and gives him the kind of advertisement you can't buy.

I'm thinking his sales are exploding in the wake of this.


Go to the site. It's they're best seller, and they're using the ban as a promotion. "Our shirts are banned in four states!!!"

_________________
"Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Administrator
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:44 pm
Posts: 8910
Location: Santa Cruz
Gender: Male
Peeps wrote:
i was under the impression that every person is entitled to the rights of their own name and that name can not be used for a profit with out compensation


Do you think Bush gets compensated for all those t-shirts about him?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar
In a van down by the river
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:15 am
Posts: 33031
Buggy wrote:
Peeps wrote:
i was under the impression that every person is entitled to the rights of their own name and that name can not be used for a profit with out compensation


Do you think Bush gets compensated for all those t-shirts about him?


i bet if he wanted to, he could sue the hell out of the people who make them

_________________
maybe we can hum along...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: You Can't Wear That Shirt - IT'S ILLEGAL!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Mike's Maniac
 Profile

Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:14 pm
Posts: 15317
Location: Concord, NC
Gender: Male
Peeps wrote:
Buggy wrote:
Peeps wrote:
i was under the impression that every person is entitled to the rights of their own name and that name can not be used for a profit with out compensation


Do you think Bush gets compensated for all those t-shirts about him?


i bet if he wanted to, he could sue the hell out of the people who make them


yeah, but let's face it...he's not smart enough to pull something like that off

_________________
255 characters are nowhere near enough


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Administrator
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:44 pm
Posts: 8910
Location: Santa Cruz
Gender: Male
Peeps, do you remember that whole fiasco with Time magazine using Ed's picture on the cover, and they did so without his permission or consent (they didnt need it). And he's not getting any cut from Time magazine either.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 77 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
It is currently Fri Nov 21, 2025 11:41 am