Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:36 am Posts: 3556 Location: Twin Ports
Russia's nationalists call for ban on Jewish groups
AFP Photo
Russia's nationalist lawmakers have asked the prosecutor general to ban all Jewish organizations because of their "extremist" views, in a vitriolic call ahead of this week's 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz.
The letter was dated January 13 but only rose to public attention this week. It shocked human rights defenders and even some of the original signatories reportedly changed their minds and were recalling their names.
A foreign ministry statement issued on the eve of President Vladimir Putin's attendance at the Auschwitz memorial commemoration in Poland said "the statement has nothing to do with the official position of the Russian leadership."
The seven-page call signed by 20 members of the 450-seat State Duma lower house of parliament that included the Communist Party and nationalist groups used some of the most profane language against Jews publicly published in the post-Soviet era.
"The whole democratic world today is under the financial and political control of the Jews," said the statement.
The group was led by Vladimir Zhirinovsky and his Liberal Democratic Party.
"We would not want our Russia, which is subject to a permanent, extra-legal war seeking to prevent its rebirth, to find itself among unfree countries," the statement said.
It called on the Russian courts to ban "all Jewish religious and community groups" which the statement also described as "anti-Christian" and accused Jews of staging attacks against their own community as a provocation so they could pin blame on others.
"We would like to underline that many anti-Jewish acts around the world are staged by the Jews themselves as a provocation in order to take punitive measures against patriots," the letter said.
The Russian state officially does not subscribe to any religion but Orthodox Christians dominate the country's religious life and often enter into politics with the patriarch's frequent meetings with Russian President Vladimir Putin and some visiting heads of state.
"We cannot follow the false idea of tolerance which is imposed on us, such as that of the acceptance of sin, of evil, of heresy, and in the present case, of nothing less than satanism," said the document.
It was also published by a periodical called Orthodox Russia in a version that had some 500 signatures that included editors of nationalist publications.
The appeal was published on paper carrying the parliament's letterhead and called on Russia's prosecutor general to "officially open a legal investigation into banning all Jewish religious and community groups" on grounds of "defense of the homeland."
The Israeli embassy here issued a statement asking the Russian government to "immediately" take measures to fight growing anti-Semitism in the country. "This is a classic example of anti-Semitism," the statement said.
The letter and the following Israeli appeal have not been covered by the state-controlled media.
But rights groups were quick to vent their outrage. The Moscow Bureau for Human Rights appealed to both Putin and Prosecutor General Vladimir Ustinov asking the two to denounce the anti-Jewish drive.
"Will Russia be able to put a stop to the brewing neo-nationalism," the human rights body's letter demands.
Meanwhile Andrei Cherkizov -- one of Moscow's most noted Jewish commentators who appears on Moscow Echo radio -- accused the Russian government itself of secretly harboring ant-Semitic views.
"I can tell you this with absolute certainty," Cherkizov told the radio station. "However you try to cover up anti-Semitism, its naked feet will still be sticking out."
Meanwhile Russia's Inter-religions Council called the appeal a "gross violation."
It added said the letter "has added serious arguments for future US State Department condemnations of our country's polemics."
Washington recently expressed concern about the fate of Jews living in Russia. A series of booby trapped anti-Semitic signs injured several people last summer.
_________________ Rising and falling at force ten
We twist the world
And ride the wind
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:58 am Posts: 2105 Location: Austin
Scary stuff, this seems to be a bit of a trend as of late. 20 out of 450 isn't to completly horrible, but it shows that the sentiment is decently widespread.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
Russian Nazis wrote:
"The whole democratic world today is under the financial and political control of the Jews," said the statement.
The group was led by Vladimir Zhirinovsky and his Liberal Democratic Party.
What does anyone in Russia know about "the democratic world"?
Quote:
"We would not want our Russia, which is subject to a permanent, extra-legal war seeking to prevent its rebirth, to find itself among unfree countries," the statement said.
Yeah shit, you wouldn't want THAT to happen.
Quote:
"We would like to underline that many anti-Jewish acts around the world are staged by the Jews themselves as a provocation in order to take punitive measures against patriots," the letter said.
Yo, I heard that Jews blew up the World Trade Center, and that all the Jews that worked there got a call the night before that told them not to go to work on September 11. Yup, it's true!
Quote:
"We cannot follow the false idea of tolerance which is imposed on us, such as that of the acceptance of sin, of evil, of heresy, and in the present case, of nothing less than satanism," said the document.
Yeah, that false idea of tolerance will lead you nowhere if not to freedom and economic advancement, and you wouldn't want that.
Let me tell you something about nationalist racism. These people fall into two categories, the leaders and the followers. The followers are without exception poor, uneducated, in most other ways ignorant, often unattractive physically, and without any hope of bettering themselves due to the aforementioned factors. They have one and only one thing going for them, and that is that they are members of the majority ethnic/religious group, the poor white trash as we would know them in America. So they grab onto that one thing that they have going for them and they run with it and make it the the highest virtue imaginable since they have nothing else.
Then there are the leaders. They are usually more educated, but ignorant nonetheless. This is the worst kind of ignorance, when you have been exposed to the truth but you choose to believe lies anyway. Even more importantly, they are power hungry opportunists who seize on the fears and prejudices of the least in society and rally them to their hateful cause in order to promote themselves personally and politically.
Whn you break it down, you can almost feel sorry for your average Nazi. The leaders however deserve no mercy and should be taken down whenever and wherever possible. These sort of "dregs of society" politicl movements can actually be stopped by cutting off the heads of the party, because the masses of the group don't have the wits or politesse to lead themselves. It's like what the FBI has done to the Mafia over the past 40 years by taking out one boss after another, the idiots and sociopaths who are left can't manage themselves and the whole operation falls to pieces. Not to mention, these movements usually revolve around a charismatic leader in a cult of personality that holds the whole thing together.
Bullet to the head.
--PunkDavid
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:35 am Posts: 1311 Location: Lexington
I dont know how relevant this is but I am currently doing research on the Vichy government (which ruled the unoccupied portion of France during WWII). None of this was brought to my attention previously and I think it is quite important. I found the following very interesting.
The resistance was not led mostly by patriotic individuals with nationalistic intentions but was started by members of the communist party, then quietly swept under the rug.
More importantly the Vichy government actively collaborated with the Nazis. They had plans supporting the invasion and occupation of Britain. They provided the Nazis with documentation then cooperated in arresting and imprisoning Jews Maurice Papon, the former Chief of Police in Paris, was found guilty of crimes against hummanity for his role in this anti-semetic activity at age 87, over 42 years after the war had ended.
_________________
punkdavid wrote:
Make sure to bring a bottle of vitriol. And wear a condom so you don't insinuate her.
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:45 pm Posts: 1481 Location: Jersey
living in NYC,there are many Ruskies here (infact there was an article today that he population of Russians in New York is skyrocketing).So I'm not suprised by their hatred born out of stupidity/ignorance.The men look like they are in the Russian mafia and the women look like they are prostitutes.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
punkdavid wrote:
Whn you break it down, you can almost feel sorry for your average Nazi.
That's exactly true. My grandmother was actually the average Nazi (well, German citizen, not member of the Nazi party), and what are you choices? Support some party with radical ideas, or starve to death? I'm not even sure the average citizen knew what their government was doing to the Jews.
That is probably exactly what is happening in Russia, with those two groups you mentioned.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
living in NYC,there are many Ruskies here (infact there was an article today that he population of Russians in New York is skyrocketing).So I'm not suprised by their hatred born out of stupidity/ignorance.The men look like they are in the Russian mafia and the women look like they are prostitutes.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:36 am Posts: 3556 Location: Twin Ports
Angela wrote:
captainloveboat wrote:
living in NYC,there are many Ruskies here (infact there was an article today that he population of Russians in New York is skyrocketing).So I'm not suprised by their hatred born out of stupidity/ignorance.The men look like they are in the Russian mafia and the women look like they are prostitutes.
Is this a joke?
I'm actually inclined to think he is serious.
I would hope not though.
_________________ Rising and falling at force ten
We twist the world
And ride the wind
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:58 am Posts: 2105 Location: Austin
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Whn you break it down, you can almost feel sorry for your average Nazi.
That's exactly true. My grandmother was actually the average Nazi (well, German citizen, not member of the Nazi party), and what are you choices? Support some party with radical ideas, or starve to death? I'm not even sure the average citizen knew what their government was doing to the Jews.
That is probably exactly what is happening in Russia, with those two groups you mentioned.
I don't think the average German knew what was going on at the concentration camps, but many did know, and support a leader who was verbally anti Jewish even before he took over, and afterwards the treatment and imprisonment of the Jews was obvious to all. But it is very likely that many did not know they were being sent away to their deaths.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
C4Lukin wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Whn you break it down, you can almost feel sorry for your average Nazi.
That's exactly true. My grandmother was actually the average Nazi (well, German citizen, not member of the Nazi party), and what are you choices? Support some party with radical ideas, or starve to death? I'm not even sure the average citizen knew what their government was doing to the Jews.
That is probably exactly what is happening in Russia, with those two groups you mentioned.
I don't think the average German knew what was going on at the concentration camps, but many did know, and support a leader who was verbally anti Jewish even before he took over, and afterwards the treatment and imprisonment of the Jews was obvious to all. But it is very likely that many did not know they were being sent away to their deaths.
It's funny that you guys picked up on this statement and approached it in this way. It isn't what I meant. You're talking about the average German citizen during the Nazi era, I was talking about the average brownshirt thug. Strangely enough, I have more sympathy for the goosestepper than for the person watching the parade. The goosestepper is a dupe. He's being fed lies to feed his fears and being used by greater minds for their own purposes. The regular citizens are not true believers. Somewhere in their minds they know this hatred is wrong. And yet they fear the party, and just try to stay out of the way and away from harm themselves. I'm sure the average German had no idea what was going on at Dachau or Auschwitz, but they knew they were being led by fearmongers. Even if it had nothing to do with Jews, the good German people never stood up for THEIR OWN RIGHTS against the Nazis. It's hard to blame them, but I also don't feel sorry for them.
--PunkDavid
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Whn you break it down, you can almost feel sorry for your average Nazi.
That's exactly true. My grandmother was actually the average Nazi (well, German citizen, not member of the Nazi party), and what are you choices? Support some party with radical ideas, or starve to death? I'm not even sure the average citizen knew what their government was doing to the Jews.
That is probably exactly what is happening in Russia, with those two groups you mentioned.
I don't think the average German knew what was going on at the concentration camps, but many did know, and support a leader who was verbally anti Jewish even before he took over, and afterwards the treatment and imprisonment of the Jews was obvious to all. But it is very likely that many did not know they were being sent away to their deaths.
It's funny that you guys picked up on this statement and approached it in this way. It isn't what I meant. You're talking about the average German citizen during the Nazi era, I was talking about the average brownshirt thug. Strangely enough, I have more sympathy for the goosestepper than for the person watching the parade. The goosestepper is a dupe. He's being fed lies to feed his fears and being used by greater minds for their own purposes. The regular citizens are not true believers. Somewhere in their minds they know this hatred is wrong. And yet they fear the party, and just try to stay out of the way and away from harm themselves. I'm sure the average German had no idea what was going on at Dachau or Auschwitz, but they knew they were being led by fearmongers. Even if it had nothing to do with Jews, the good German people never stood up for THEIR OWN RIGHTS against the Nazis. It's hard to blame them, but I also don't feel sorry for them.
--PunkDavid
Same goes for the Americans at the time, or the Catholics, or basically anybody in the world at one point or another.
But yeah, the best part about this is that these silly Russians seem to think they're a part of some shining city on the hill.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
captainloveboat wrote:
living in NYC,there are many Ruskies here (infact there was an article today that he population of Russians in New York is skyrocketing).So I'm not suprised by their hatred born out of stupidity/ignorance.The men look like they are in the Russian mafia and the women look like they are prostitutes.
There is irony dripping from this post. Just leeching out of it.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
Athletic Supporter wrote:
captainloveboat wrote:
living in NYC,there are many Ruskies here (infact there was an article today that he population of Russians in New York is skyrocketing).So I'm not suprised by their hatred born out of stupidity/ignorance.The men look like they are in the Russian mafia and the women look like they are prostitutes.
There is irony dripping from this post. Just leeching out of it.
I think the Russians are just jealous that Jews get all the stereotypes about being cheap and stingy when the Russians make Jews look like spendthrifts compared to their nickel-and-diming, trifling asses.
--PunkDavid
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Let me tell you something about nationalist racism. These people fall into two categories, the leaders and the followers. The followers are without exception poor, uneducated, in most other ways ignorant, often unattractive physically, and without any hope of bettering themselves due to the aforementioned factors.
Calling them ugly was a nice touch.
Quote:
the women look like they are prostitutes.
so does any college girl going to a club... In fact, thanks to the multitude of unfit parents, so do a lot of pre-teen schoolgirls, so what's your point?
Anyways, we'll never know who knew what or how much was known when so discussing the moral/amoral actions of anyone at that time seems like an exercise in futility. It would have sucked to be a sentient being in German society at that time, just as it would have sucked to be a sentient being in the Southern US pre-Lincoln. To inlude my own country, there were Asian work camps set up in Canada during the 40's.
Racism and prejudice suck. I wasn't alive during any of these issues, If I were, would I react differently than I would today? Likely. Simply by attending public school, I am more educated than my Grandparents were and I can see the faults in their character as a result.
We can only move on and try to educate to get rid of the ignorance that is rampant among some of the older generations. (I have a relative that uses the "N" word)
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
punkdavid wrote:
C4Lukin wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Whn you break it down, you can almost feel sorry for your average Nazi.
That's exactly true. My grandmother was actually the average Nazi (well, German citizen, not member of the Nazi party), and what are you choices? Support some party with radical ideas, or starve to death? I'm not even sure the average citizen knew what their government was doing to the Jews.
That is probably exactly what is happening in Russia, with those two groups you mentioned.
I don't think the average German knew what was going on at the concentration camps, but many did know, and support a leader who was verbally anti Jewish even before he took over, and afterwards the treatment and imprisonment of the Jews was obvious to all. But it is very likely that many did not know they were being sent away to their deaths.
It's funny that you guys picked up on this statement and approached it in this way. It isn't what I meant. You're talking about the average German citizen during the Nazi era, I was talking about the average brownshirt thug. Strangely enough, I have more sympathy for the goosestepper than for the person watching the parade. The goosestepper is a dupe. He's being fed lies to feed his fears and being used by greater minds for their own purposes. The regular citizens are not true believers. Somewhere in their minds they know this hatred is wrong. And yet they fear the party, and just try to stay out of the way and away from harm themselves. I'm sure the average German had no idea what was going on at Dachau or Auschwitz, but they knew they were being led by fearmongers. Even if it had nothing to do with Jews, the good German people never stood up for THEIR OWN RIGHTS against the Nazis. It's hard to blame them, but I also don't feel sorry for them.
--PunkDavid
This is getting way off topic, but the very simple reason they didn't stand up to the Nazis is before they were starving, and now they weren't. Essentially, there support was being bought.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
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