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 Post subject: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:30 pm 
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What a joke. We give billions of dollars a year to multi-millionaire farmers for ethynol, wheat, soybeans, or to not grow crops at all. On top of it, we've been killing farmers in poor, third-world countries by imposing tariffs on imports of certain crops to protect industrial farmers here (such as with South American sugarcane farmers).

With the new Democratically-controlled Congress, Pelosi promised improvements. But with the new farm bill, she is only backing a modest decrease in the amounts farmers can make while still receiving money from the federal government. Hopefully, things will improve with a few proposed amendments (by decreasing income from $2.5 million to $250,000). It's still a joke.

Chicago Tribune wrote:

Cut farm welfare
July 26, 2007

If you believe it's outrageous to pay federal subsidies to millionaire farmers, then root for U.S. Rep. Ron Kind on Thursday. If you believe that farmers reaping near-record prices for corn and soybeans have no business collecting money from taxpayers, then root for Kind on Thursday.

That's when the House will begin to debate the next farm bill. Kind, a Wisconsin Democrat, has an amendment that would alter U.S. agricultural policy radically.

Most farm subsidies go to the richest farmers of just five crops -- corn, wheat, soybeans, rice and cotton. The Democratic leadership's farm bill would do little to fundamentally alter the system of subsidies.

Ah, but Kind and his band of reformers would. (Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana is leading the effort in the Senate.) They would greatly reduce the convoluted system of farm price supports and cash payments. This would end the distorting policy that discourages smart, market-oriented farming, increases the cost of food and is the major obstacle to any progress on world trade talks.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Kind to succeed, but at least he is one Democrat willing to buck a system that rewards the few at the expense of the many.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi talked a good game before Democrats took control of Congress, but she has praised the bloated five-year farm bill that came out of the House Agriculture Committee last week, calling it a "good first step" toward reform.

Is she kidding? The Democrats' bill would give subsidies to farmers who have adjusted gross incomes of as much as $1 million. Yes, that's lower than the current cap of $2.5 million, but it still amounts to a government handout for people who hardly need it.


Kind's amendment would put the income cap at $250,000. (Incidentally, the Bush administration, often criticized for catering to the fat cats, has proposed an income limit of $200,000.)

Under Kind's reforms, farmers could set up risk management accounts, something like an IRA, in which they could invest and draw on when their income drops. His proposal would save $12 billion over five years, putting money into federal deficit reduction, hunger assistance, minority farmers and other efforts.

American farm policy has been held hostage by powerful agricultural interests for decades. Those interests don't want to see any change because this system works just fine for them. The members of the House Agriculture Committee, who unanimously voted to move the leadership's bloated bill onto the floor, come from districts that received more than 42 percent of all farm payments from 2003 to 2005, according to figures gathered by the Washington-based Environmental Working Group.

Wealthy farmers don't need subsidies. On Thursday, root for Ron Kind and a sane U.S. farm policy.


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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:38 pm 
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Subsides are a joke on already mature business, when the person is incompetent, he/she should get bankrupt and try something else, and not get easy money from the gov!

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Last edited by Human Bass on Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:39 pm 
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I happen to agree. That shit is totally unacceptable.

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LittleWing sometime in July 2007 wrote:
Unfortunately, it's so elementary, and the big time investors behind the drive in the stock market aren't so stupid. This isn't the false economy of 2000.


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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:47 pm 
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glorified_version wrote:
I happen to agree. That shit is totally unacceptable.


The problem up until now is the Repubicans didn't do shit because they represented large farming districts.


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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:00 pm 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:
glorified_version wrote:
I happen to agree. That shit is totally unacceptable.


The problem up until now is the Repubicans didn't do shit because they represented large farming districts.

And the democrats wont do nothing, because they dont want the image of greed capitalists who want evil free trade.

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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:04 pm 
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Didn't Scottie Pippen make a few hundred thousand dollars on farm subsidies? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:17 pm 
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Human Bass wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
glorified_version wrote:
I happen to agree. That shit is totally unacceptable.


The problem up until now is the Repubicans didn't do shit because they represented large farming districts.

And the democrats wont do nothing, because they dont want the image of greed capitalists who want evil free trade.


So says libertarian kid from Brazil.

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LittleWing sometime in July 2007 wrote:
Unfortunately, it's so elementary, and the big time investors behind the drive in the stock market aren't so stupid. This isn't the false economy of 2000.


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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:53 pm 
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on another board, there was a thread about this and somebody put up this quote from Catch-22 that really sums it all up perfectly:

Quote:
Major Major's father was a sober God-fearing man whose idea of a good joke was to lie about his age. He was a long-limbed farmer, a God-fearing, freedom-loving, law-abiding rugged individualist who held that federal aid to anyone but farmers was creeping socialism. He advocated thrift and hard work and disapproved of loose women who turned him down. His specialty was alfalfa, and he made a good thing out of not growing any. The government paid him well for every bushel of alfalfa he did not grow. The more alfalfa he did not grow, the more money the government gave him, and he spent every penny he didn't earn on new land to increase the amount of alfalfa he did not produce. Major Major's father worked without rest at not growing alfalfa. On long winter evenings he remained indoors and did not mend harness, and he sprang out of bed at the crack of noon every day just to make certain that the chores would not be done. He invested in land wisely and soon was not growing more alfalfa than any other man in the county.

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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:54 pm 
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Quote:
So says libertarian kid from Brazil.


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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:21 pm 
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glorified_version wrote:
Human Bass wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
glorified_version wrote:
I happen to agree. That shit is totally unacceptable.


The problem up until now is the Repubicans didn't do shit because they represented large farming districts.

And the democrats wont do nothing, because they dont want the image of greed capitalists who want evil free trade.


So says libertarian kid from Brazil.

Yup, im a rare kind in this 3rd world neck of woods.

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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:30 pm 
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I have yet to find a worthwhile argument in favor of farm subsidies.


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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:25 am 
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Green Habit wrote:
I have yet to find a worthwhile argument in favor of farm subsidies.


It helps presidential hopefuls to win the Iowa caucus.

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In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.


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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:15 am 
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$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
I have yet to find a worthwhile argument in favor of farm subsidies.


It helps presidential hopefuls to win the Iowa caucus.

That and advocating increased ethanol production.

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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:29 am 
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$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
Didn't Scottie Pippen make a few hundred thousand dollars on farm subsidies? :lol:


He got $26,315. David Rockefeller, Bob Dole and Ted Turner also received some cash.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Agriculture/BG1542.cfm


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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:30 am 
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Some frat guy (what that has to do with it I'm not sure) was taking issue with my stance against subsidies, saying we need them for our food security or something. And when I brought up the issue of Third World farmers suffering because of our policies, he said something about "natural population control". Thats a fantastic way of framing it, we like farming subisides because they help control the population of the Third World.


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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:34 am 
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punkdavid wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
I have yet to find a worthwhile argument in favor of farm subsidies.


It helps presidential hopefuls to win the Iowa caucus.

That and advocating increased ethanol production.


You know what the ironic thing about ethanol is? It takes more energy (read: gasoline) to produce it than it supposedly saves in fuel efficiency. What a joke.


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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:48 am 
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I've told before, making ethanol of corn is like milking a mare.

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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:54 am 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
I have yet to find a worthwhile argument in favor of farm subsidies.


It helps presidential hopefuls to win the Iowa caucus.

That and advocating increased ethanol production.


You know what the ironic thing about ethanol is? It takes more energy (read: gasoline) to produce it than it supposedly saves in fuel efficiency. What a joke.

Watching Bill Bradley have to pretend that he was receptive to the idea of ethanol subsidies when he ran for President was one of the most heart-breaking things I've ever witnessed. His eyes were screaming in pain.

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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:47 pm 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:
glorified_version wrote:
I happen to agree. That shit is totally unacceptable.


The problem up until now is the Repubicans didn't do shit because they represented large farming districts.




So the problem was that elected politicians were representing the best interests of their constituents?


My nationalist perspective: we should let other countries use up all their fresh water and soil resources while we save our own for when we need them.

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 Post subject: Re: Farm Subsidies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:55 pm 
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I happen to agree, then again most of us aren't farmers.

I'd say this is the main reason for the Cuban embargo continuing (tobacco, sugar) and they are one reason West Africa is still impoverished (Cotton)

Why the hell are we subsidising tobacco again while simultaneously fining and punishing manufacturers of tobacco?

They keep American farmers employeed as farmers in some areas where it's just not profitable enough to grow a particular crop, but that's the only positive I can see that comes from them. It's a slap in the face to competition.

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