Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
Quote:
Article published Monday, August 13, 2007 Choose paper, not plastic
GROCERY store baggers always ask shoppers if they want paper or plastic. Earth-conscious consumers choose paper.
The reason they do, and the reason cities are adopting bans on plastic bags, is to protect the environment. There's a growing movement that could force more consumers to take paper bags, supply their own plastic bags, or else pay a hefty price for plastic, which are all good ideas.
Usually consumers can find multiple ways to reuse and recycle plastic bags. But even the most determined recycler gets annoyed about plastic bags, which seem to multiply in kitchen pantries. However, they are wreaking far more havoc than that. They are littering the landscape, clogging waterways, and choking wildlife to death.
Just count the number of times you've seen plastic grocery bags whirling in the wind and stuck in trees in neighborhoods, along roads, and in parks. Birds and other wildlife that try to eat them die. Marine life is also threatened when discarded plastic finds its way to rivers, lakes, and oceans.
The burden plastic imposes reaches beyond the environment. It takes 12 million barrels of oil to make the 100 billion plastic bags distributed every year. Considering that it takes plastic 1,000 years to biodegrade, it makes sense to use more paper.
No wonder more cities are considering bans. Annapolis, Md., is entertaining a proposal to keep retail stores from using plastic bags in order to protect marine life. It would force stores to offer consumers recycled bags. Not a bad idea, in view of the proliferation of plastic bags. And anyone who fails to take plastic bags to the store for reuse would simply get paper bags.
San Francisco has enacted a ban for some stores, and Boston, Baltimore, and Portland, Ore., are considering measures.
But there are also other ways to convince consumers to get on the right side of this issue. Some stores are taking more persuasive action to compel consumers to use paper by charging a fee for plastic bags. And one grocer gives a 3-cent credit for every plastic bag customers return.
Not surprisingly, there are critics. Some want communities to better enforce litter laws. Good idea, until you have to figure out who to fine for stray bags. And sure, paper bags cost a nickel, more than two times the cost of plastic.
But choosing based strictly on price falls under the category of being penny-wise and pound-foolish, and Mother Earth surely knows better.
There is an interview on the Diane Rehm show today and the anti-ban guy made the argument that grocery store counters are made to accomodate plastic bags and if you banned plastic there would be an increase of bag-boy injuries as they attempted to lift paper bags off of counters that weren't designed for them.
C'mon. Are you kidding me? That's bullshit!
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
B wrote:
There is an interview on the Diane Rehm show today and the anti-ban guy made the argument that grocery store counters are made to accomodate plastic bags and if you banned plastic there would be an increase of bag-boy injuries as they attempted to lift paper bags off of counters that weren't designed for them.
I believe something like that was the ideal being proposed by Annapolis' mayor. He recommended a 15 cent bonus for each reusable back used.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
punkdavid wrote:
Plastic bags are so convenient though.
I don't understand why.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
B wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Plastic bags are so convenient though.
I don't understand why.
Because I can carry about three times as many of them at a time as I can paper bags, and if you hippies want me to ride my bicycle or walk to the grocery store, that makes a difference.
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
punkdavid wrote:
B wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Plastic bags are so convenient though.
I don't understand why.
Because I can carry about three times as many of them at a time as I can paper bags, and if you hippies want me to ride my bicycle or walk to the grocery store, that makes a difference.
You can carry 6 plastic bags with two items each, or you can carry 2 paper bags with 6 items each.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
B wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
B wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Plastic bags are so convenient though.
I don't understand why.
Because I can carry about three times as many of them at a time as I can paper bags, and if you hippies want me to ride my bicycle or walk to the grocery store, that makes a difference.
You can carry 6 plastic bags with two items each, or you can carry 2 paper bags with 6 items each.
Wrong.
Maybe a plastic bag can hold 60-75% of the volume of a paper bag, but with flexible plastic handles, the only limit on how many bags I can carry is the weight of the items in the bags. I regularly carry 8-12 bags at a time from the car to the kitchen. With paper bags, I could carry two, maybe three, but only for a short distance.
For people who aren't lucky enough to have a car to take to the store, they are forced to steal a cart and push it home to their place. That always makes the neighborhood look good...
When I lived in Chicago, I used to walk home from the store. Eventually, I had to buy a shopping cart. It cost $50, but it was worth it for me. One thing though, plastic bags, because they are flexible, and their shape is dictated only by their contents, can fit more into that cart than can the paper bags, which are square and more rigid.
I understand the problem of plastic bags. I used to use them for cat litter. I still reuse them for small garbage cans in the bathroom and such. Mostly they go in the recycling bin and are picked up by the city (God knows where they go from there). Until there is a viable alternative for the convenience of small plastic bags with handles, they're not going anywhere. That's America. You can't give us a convenience and then try to take it back.
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
Wuss.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:17 pm Posts: 13551 Location: is a jerk in wyoming Gender: Female
What happened to the 'plastic' type bags they started making a number of years ago that had a cornstarch base which allowed them to decompose after a few years?
anyway, I have loads of plastic bags from grocery shopping, even with using them in trash cans etc, there's still too many for me to re-use, and they end up being thrown away anyhow when you re-use them. I have noticed over the last few years that more of the local stores are accepting them for recycling so I try to do that as often as possible, but for awhile, the stores that accepted the plastic back for recycling would only take the bags from their own company.
How about reasonably priced nylon type bags that you could use numerous times? Those are like plastic in how flexible they are but I don't know if that's just substituting one problem for another...
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:54 am Posts: 7189 Location: CA
Any dog owners in the house? One of the reasons my girlfriend goes to the local grocery store in addition to Trader Joes (which is by all accounts at least five times more awesome) is that the latter does not offer plastic bags, which are a must have item for dog owners. You can buy doggie bags with metal frames and cardboard handles, but I imagine it would be much more eco friendly to use one or two plastic bags. We do have a couple of canvas bags, and try to bring those to TJs as paper bags are difficult to reuse for anything beyond crafts as the handles fall off rather quickly. The biggest argument I'm hearing against plastic bags is that they are an eyesore. People tend to do a bad job of distinguishing what is bad for the environment versus what looks trashy. Unless the litter on the side of the road is choking animals or leeching toxic waste, its probably not a big deal.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
simple schoolboy wrote:
Any dog owners in the house? One of the reasons my girlfriend goes to the local grocery store in addition to Trader Joes (which is by all accounts at least five times more awesome) is that the latter does not offer plastic bags, which are a must have item for dog owners.
I never use the grocery bags for dog poop. They're too flimsy and rip easy. I feel like it's not a decent barrier between the warm dog shit and my hand. We buy food storage bags and use those. Which is probably just as wasteful as using plastic bags when you shop.
But, we always, always, always get paper at the grocery store [I guess] to try and offset the difference.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:02 am Posts: 2560 Location: Dallas/Atlanta/Savannah
paper makes good sense. in most cities their is a decent ammount of recycling to re-use the paper. I actually dont live in a city with a city funded recycling program (you have to pay for that service individually), I pretty much never see paper at grocery stores.
or you could just grab as much shit as possible and carry it home. lolz
_________________ "is that a fucking pearl jam shirt?" Courtney Love
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:43 pm Posts: 7633 Location: Philly Del Fia Gender: Female
I food shop by myself. I usually get around 4-5 bags of food and stuff for myself weekly, which means about 2 akward trips from wherever on my street I'm lucky enough to find a parking place, through the front door, around 3 cats and a toddler trying to escape, into the kitchen, then a sprint back to the car with the open doors for the rest. Those plastic handles are a godsend. I can squeeze um all together and carry more. My arms aren't long enough to wrap one around a paper bag, so unless they're near-empty, I can only carry one at a time.
Between my shopping and my mom's, we still run out of plastic bags to re-use. We use them in small trash cans, and for lunches during the week.
I believe something like that was the ideal being proposed by Annapolis' mayor. He recommended a 15 cent bonus for each reusable back used.
These have become really popular over here in the last couple of years. They're everywhere. There's still a ways to go in replacing the plastic ones, but it seems as if decent inroads have been made. I use them, although I have to confess I often pick a up a few things on the way home from work when I don't have one on me, or I just plum forget. As for paper, it's never been used here to my knowledge.
_________________ Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear, Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer. The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:03 am Posts: 24177 Location: Australia
Green Habit wrote:
vacatetheword wrote:
As for paper, it's never been used here to my knowledge.
That's odd--almost as odd as turkey not being a presence over there.
well, the fact that you DO have paper seems odd and typically american to us. i mean, no handles?
also we have turkey.
_________________ Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear, Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer. The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.
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Wuss.
