Ever since I slowly converted (or re-realized) myself as a Pagan, I've noticed that Satanists are totally fucked. They inverted the Pagan pentacle, put a goat's head on it and somehow think that they're fucking cool. But really they're a bunch of fucking tools and a bunch of selfish brats. My only sympathy towards them is that they are probably the victims of bad parenting... especially fundamentalist Christian parenting.

Though Christians think of Pagans as Satanists, the truth is Satanists are the enemy of both Christians and Pagans.

I just stumbled upon this article, and whether or not you are silly enough to call yourself a Pagan as I do... I think all who are interested in religion will find this pretyt fucking fascinating:

http://www.neopagan.net/Enemies.html

To bring this to politics, I had recently been thinking that if Satanists were to belong a political party, it would either be a Fascist Party or the Libertarian Party. This site backs up my theory pretty damn well.

It also makes a great point about how Satanists and fundamentalist Christians (and Muslims) are very much alike... like two sides of the same coin.

Anyway, tomorrow is Imbolc. Rock.

Do you have any proof of this or is this just your opinion?

do you want your religion to be taken seriously?


if so, what gives you the right to bash anyone elses religion.


got news for you, theres bad parenting no matter the religion, christian, pagan, satanic, muslim, buddihsm etc....

I'm gonna look on the internet for a story, but as of now its an educated guess. I do know one 18 year old kid who calls himself a Satanist, and he has issues with his parents, but I don't know if they are fundamentalist Christians or not.

got news for you: thats not news to me. i would never claim that pagans are perfectly righteous... i think that would be against my religion...

as to what gives me the right to bash anyone elses religion? the 1st ammendment.

None of the groups that you point towards as enemies of christians are really any threat. The people that pose a threat to the Christian way of life are Christians themselves.

What does being pagan entail? For that matter what does being a Satanist entail. Do any people from those groups actually do anything. Is there any philosophy that is pointed towards as meaningful to living a complete life? I don't think so.


Where I come from the people that claim to be pagans are much like the people that claim to be wicca, they talk of some sort of belief structure, but they don't really know what it is. Seems to me these people have the same problem that a lot of Christians have; they follow a God that they know very little about.

Arrrrgh I hate when the board malfunctions

I have a fairly long response to this, I just can't seem to ever post something that long without getting a million errors.

Logically, Satanists are Christians far more than they are Pagans. Pagans (as a majority) don't even BELIEVE Satan exists. Satan only exists in Christian religions. Just because they're worshiping a different side of the coin doesn't make them any less a part of the Christian group, as far as I'm concerned.

I pretty much agree. Christians are their own worst enemy. But then again, most Christians can hardly be defined as Christians in strict terms.

Satanists do have a philosophy and yes, they do things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism


This is how I'd define my paganism:

Neo-Paganism: An attempt by modern people to reconnect with nature, pre-Christian religions, or other nature-based spiritual paths.

Let me try doing it in sections...

On Heathenism:
First of all "pagan" isn't the right word to use if we are talking about legitimate European religion here, it's Heathenism. The word "pagan" just stirs up in most peoples mind retarded 14 year old angsty girls practicing wicca or something faux like that. The only real practice of Heathenism these days is by our modern day Asatruers, or Odinist as they're also known. Specifically groups like the AFA(Asatru Folk Assembly). It's a touchy subject because if you lean too far one way you're siding with moron kids who actually believe Heathenism is this distorted shit that bookstores have stoked in their "New Age religions" section. In reality it's fairy hard to even practice the true Heathen religion, because the Eddas and Sagas are not so easy to come by. Another thing is the pentagram isn't really a European Heathen symbol of anything, the most sacred symbols are the Hammer of Thor, the cross: + (which is explained as a figure with his/her arms outstretched worshiping mother earth, has nothing to do with Christianity in this case), and the swastika, which originally had nothing to do with race or Nazism or anything like that, it's actually from a rune of ancient Europe. So if you choose to be Heathen than the only smart thing to do would be learn about your European ancestry, and try to worship accordingly, but good luck if you're Estonian or something, because almost all records of a lot of European Heathenry is lost. Only the Germanic Norse Heathen records have really survived.

On "Satanism":
It's defiantly not a new concept, and has actually been around a hell(sic) of a lot longer than Christianity. Mind you there is not a single person in America or European that has ever been or will ever be a Satanist. That is because the original "Satanist" were a very very nomadic defensive tribe in the Middle East. When people would actually try to go to them and ask to learn about their religion, they would purposely cook up stories and completely lie to them, as to not let an outsider know what they're all about. Therefore from day one "Satanism" has been fabricated and utter bullshit. The modern "Satanists" as conducted by Anton La Vey are an utter joke too, all they are is glorified Humanists who took the "Satanist" title to piss off Christians and whoever else they could.

On how all this ties in to everything:
Believe it or not all this is explained in simple terms with the use of man's truest, holiest, oldest, and most scientifically correct book(s), the Vedas. Let me try to explain Heathenism first. When Lord Krishna lay in an eternal ocean, from his navel came the first being in the universe, he was called Brahma and he was the first demigod. We say demigod because there are millions and billions of them. But there is only one God, that being Lord Krishna. Now if you believe Vedic injunction Norse(and European in general) Heathenism is explained in this way. Humanity originated in the Indus Valley, all humans, but eventually we broke off and went to other places, thus things changed, including the way we worshiped. Originally all humanity worshiped Visnu(Krishna) by meditating on Him. As time passed things got progressively bad and people started to worship the demigods for material things. The "tribe" of warriors known as the Ksatriyas migrated to what we know as Europe, it should be noted here that they were a tribe specifically for fighting, warriors if you will. Now it is explained like this, they stopped worshiping Krishna and started worshiping demigods, and here comes into play the surprisingly large amount of "warrior" demigods in the Norse/European pantheon. Odin is a god of wisdom and war, Tyr is directly a god of war, even the gods of love such as Frey also had noted aspects of great warrior in them. Not to mention the Valkyries and the Einherjar(the chosen slain warriors of Odin who would fight in the "final days" the Ragnarök.) It makes sense that the tribe that went to European worshiped warrior demigods, because they themselves were warriors in society.

...contined from the last section

Now let me try to explain a bit of "Satanism" this is actually also described in the Vedas, but in it's actual form, and the actual truth about it all. There are many thousands of demigods for many many different things, let me give you one of the most popular "evil" demigods, Kali, she's the goddess of death and the underworld. To please a demigod like Kali men in ancient times would kill an innocent person and offer that person's blood to the goddess, and they would hope for benedictions from Kali in return for their murders. This is real "Satanism" according the Vedic injunction. But it has to be pointed out that even though people choose to somethings worship demigods only, and for pointless material things, still all demigods are under the rule of the One God, Lord Krishna. So it was told in the Vedas once that two men who were worshipers of the goddess of death, Kali, wanted benedictions from her and so they found an innocent person to kill. It turned out that this innocent person was actually posing as the "village idiot" in reality he was the reincarnation of a great Saint who was only posing in this way so he could focus his whole life on liberate, breaking his cycle of endless births and deaths. They brought him to the temple of Kali and just as they were about to murder him and offer his blood to Kali, the goddess herself jumped out of the stay and killed the two men. The reason that goddess Kali did this was because they were about to kill a Saintly man, and true devotee of the Lord, and even though Kali is the demigod of death, she is still under total rule by Lord Krishna, the Absolute truth.

How tolerant of you.

of course the whole point of my questioning feel on deaf ears, i know, amazing, isnt it?

we should tolerate the practice of religion, fine. but that doens't mean we should shut up about religion. christ, goteatgod just called wicca the religion of "retarded 14 year old angtsy girls". i guess he should have more tolerant and called them simply "Godsmack fans".

labels, labels, labels... if they have a function, it is to make things clear to allow communication. if we should discuss religion, we should be able to drop any judgemental behavior, in respect to what the other person believes, which is different from what we believe. and, after we come to understand the other person's point of view, we can always come to our own conclusions and make a choice about what we can or can't accept, and to what degree (can i talk to this person? can i visit? can we become friends? can our families do things together? can our children play together? can i date/marry this person? can our children date/marry?). it all depends on us willing to find the points of agreement. what happens is, we always focus on the points of disagreement. who or what gives me the right to say your religion is wrong? as far as religion is concerned, no-one has direct proof of anything, that's why we refer to it as faith.

that said, i think the article is well written and makes an effort, rather successful, to use labels in a positive way, making things clearer. however, until now, i was quite comfortable with labeling myself as a Pagan. now i'm not so sure, now that i see that it's an organized religion/movement. maybe too organized for me. but this is just my organization-rejection issue. i prefer to be a freelancer. i didn't like to find myself in the group of the Mesopaganists, that made me feel uncomfortable. that was not a good use of the label, because it went beyond the communication funtion and created a ground for discrimination. maybe i'll keep on labeling myself a being , that's as far as i can get.

i'll keep on reading the links, i want to know what a Pagan believes.