They have the numbers that would make it seem like they are first ballot locks to be in, but on a recent survey of some of the voters neither player got the required 75% that you need to get in. Is that fair? Should they been in the HOF even with this HGH cloud hanging over them? Or should they be held out even though they are two of the greatest players to ever step on a baseball field?

Objectively, if it's proven that they cheated, then no, they don't deserve it. The Sox fan inside of me wants to see Clemens there though, with a Red Sox hat on.

yes and yes

i think they should be in no questions. But then I look at the hall of fame as the hall of FAME, not the hall of really awesome stats.

Clemens and Bonds, Macguire, Sosa, Pete Rose....these guys in their playing days were some of the biggest and most famous and most accomplished players ever. I do think on their plaques their actions should be noted just as their historical achievements are.

Roger Clemens
"The Rocket"

blah blah 7 cy youngs. blah blah 300 wins.
Was named as a peformance enhancing drug user
during baseballs infamous steroids era. Name appeared
in the Mitchell Report on steroid use in baseball.

something like that

Sandy here brings up a good point.

i know when I go to cooperstown and I walk around looking at everything I want to see the entire history of the game. thats why there is a negro league wing and a women in baseball wing....one day there might even be a steroids era wing.

they shouldn't be let in.

I actually think that would be great for baseball, just come out and say "yes this was a really dark era for the game" and set up a area in cooperstown devoted to it. Put all the players from this era that have HOF stats in there so people can see some of the great players of that era yet can read that some of their stats may be tainted.

If both of their careers had ended in 1998 before they ever touched steroids, they'd still be HOF caliber. There's no question in my mind.

I always hear this argument: "They were hall of fame players before they ever touched steroids."

Yeah, but the point is they DID take steroids. Too late buddy. One of the criteria for being elected into the HOF is character. Players who cheated for years, at such an extreme level, and ruined the integrity of the game should not be allowed in.

does the game have any integrity left?

let them in, they'll be remember for being roid users anyway

I can understand what your saying however we are not talking about two good-great players. We are talking about maybe the best hitter and pitcher to ever play, both of whom have jaw droping stats. Wouldn't it feel weird to not have the all time hr leader and the best pitcher of our generation not in the HOF?

yes and yes. though if they along with some other noted guys receive votes to hall, so should PETE ROSE!

sure, not everyone cheated. putting some of the biggest cheaters and criminals in the HOF doesn't exactly help. i mean, bonds is looking at serious jailtime and you want him in the HOF?

he's going in the baseball hall of fame, not the personality hall of fame or truth telling hall of fame. i just cant see keeping the single season and all time hr leader out of the hall, even if he's gonna be remembered as a cheater.

and as far as "not everyone cheated"-who didnt? everyone who isnt in the mitchell report? everyone that canseco didnt name? how do we tell who cheated and who didnt? there no way. the way i see it, the whole "roid era" is fucked, everyone that played during this time is gonna be looked at w/ skepticism so putting these guys in the hall isnt gonna change anything

Yes. Ditto McGwire, Rose and Shoeless Joe. What the fuck is it about the Hall of Fame that brings out everyone's inner prison warden? We already know these people are cheaters/rule breakers, it only make the Hall look silly to keep them out. It's a museum of baseball history, you can't pretend these people didn't exist and have a huge impact on the game.

Yes,

I side with Sanford.

It's the Hall of Fame, and not the Hall of Stats.

If I want to see an asterisk for steroid use, I'll find it in the Stats book. If I want to see all the great players/managers/organizations of baseball I'll go to the hall of fame. You don't need records, stats, pennants, and championships to be in the hall, albeit, it does help.

Addendum, I think that the Hall of Fame showcases the happenings in the past world of baseball. So I think that the Steroid Scandal should only help their cause into being put in the Hall, because they are part of a era that they opened the eyes to this illegal substance that changed many things in the way baseball is played and handled.

We're these guys really cheating if there were no rules inplace to start with?

MLB is saying "hey, you used steroids in 1998, but we didn't have rules against their use until 2002. But, we'll still punish you for it."

A bit hypocritical in my mind. Pete Rose is a totally different case - he was breaking rules that were already in place. Gambling on a sport you take part in is a much bigger offense in my mind. Pete Rose has NO place in the HoF as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with you on the Pete Rose aspect.
When you take steroids you're cheating, but there's still no doubt in my mind that you are playing to win.
When you gamble on a game that you are involved in, then you have to start considering if games were intentionally lost.