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 Post subject: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:46 pm 
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LAW SCHOOLS
Unhappy law students are suing their schools
Disputes over grades, admissions and conduct are behind litigation.

Vesna Jaksic / Staff reporter
December 17, 2007

Northwestern Univ. School of Law dean David Van Zandt

Call it practical training.

Unhappy with their exam grades, their law schools' readmission policies and even administrators' conduct, a number of law students have sued their law schools in recent months.

A group of students filed a $120 million class action against the American Justice School of Law in Paducah, Ky., on Nov. 17, citing allegations that include tax fraud, false representation to the American Bar Association, racketeering, scheming to defraud students and obstruction of justice. Rust v. American Justice School of Law, No. 5:07CV-191-R (W.D. Ky.).

Late last month, Adam Key, a second-year law student, sued Regent University School of Law, a private Christian school in Virginia Beach, Va., claiming violations of his right to free speech and religion after getting expelled for posting a critique in an online university forum. Key v. Regent University, No. 4:07-CV-04060 (S.D. Texas).

On Nov. 14, John Valente, a second-year student at University of Dayton School of Law in Ohio, filed a complaint against his school, citing negligence in dealing with exam software. Valente v. University of Dayton Law School of Law, No. 07-9593 (Montgomery Co., Ohio, Ct. C.P.).

More at stake?

Because of increasing costs of law schools, some students may be more likely to challenge issues that get in the way of their degrees, said David Van Zandt, dean of Northwestern University School of Law and president of the American Law Deans Association.

"It certainly is understandable if it's happening because the cost of education is going up," he said. "From some of the [lawsuit] examples, the students seem to be challenging something that is very important to them because their place in school has an impact on their job later."

The average annual cost of tuition and fees at a public law school surged by 140% during the past 10 years, from about $6,000 in 1996 to about $14,250 in 2006, according to the American Bar Association (ABA). The cost of private law schools increased by about 70%, from about $17,800 in 1996 to $30,500 in 2006.

Officials from several organizations — such as the ABA, the National Association of College and University Attorneys and the National Association for Law Placement — said they do not keep track of lawsuits against law schools, and could not say if there is an uptick.

Carl Monk, executive director of the Association of American Law Schools, said the recent spike in suits may be a coincidence.

"I would tend to think that more likely it's one month or a few months in which a few were filed," Monk said

Whatever the reason, the suits are piling up — and law schools are busy dealing with them.

American Justice School of Law officials did not return calls and e-mails about their case. But according to one news report, attorneys for the school have proposed a settlement to the students, including creation of a new board of directors to hire a new dean.

Valente, the student who filed the action against the University of Dayton School of Law, alleges that some students used a loophole that allowed them to transfer answers to the test, thereby negatively affecting his grade and preventing him for competing for a position on the University of Dayton Law Review.

John Hart, general counsel at Dayton Law School, said the school will soon file a response to Valente's suit.

Hart said it is still uncommon for students to sue their law schools. "In my over 20 years here as general counsel, it's not the first time, but it's pretty rare that students sue their institution," he said.

On Oct. 10, Clayton Hallford, a former first-year student at Florida A&M University College of Law in Orlando, filed a lawsuit claiming that one of his professors used questions from a commercial test guide in an exam, putting him and others without the guide at a disadvantage. Hallford also challenges the grading policy used, citing those issues as reasons behind his academic dismissal. Hallford v. Florida A&M College of Law, No. 2007-CA-01307 (Orange Co., Fla., Cir. Ct.).

Hallford's lawyer, David Maxwell of Orlando's Law Offices of David Maxwell, did not return a call seeking comment. Rick Mitchell, a shareholder in the Orlando office of GrayRobinson who is representing the school officials being sued, said the school plans to file a motion to dismiss the case this week.

Also last month, Lisa Dawn Rittenhouse filed a lawsuit against Southern Illinois University School of Law in Carbondale after she was told not to return for her second year because her first-year grade-point average was 1.948, just below the minimum 1.95 needed to continue.

Rittenhouse, who is white and has learning disabilities, claims that she was discriminated against while minority students without handicaps who had lower averages were allowed to return. Rittenhouse v. Southern Illinois University School of Law, No. 07-CV-00763-MJR-PMP (S.D. Ill.).

Darrell Dunham, a Carbondale attorney representing Rittenhouse, declined to comment. So did Rod Sievers, the law school's spokesman.

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:52 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:28 pm 
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Seriously, shit like this just convinces me that college kids - even the supposedly smarter lawsie types - are fucking idiots.

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:14 pm 
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Well, if the school is confident that these students deserved failing grades, then they should have nothing to worry about. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:22 pm 
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I wonder where they get this mindset...

Number of students on my team who have failed to get enough credits to go on to 8th grade in the last four years: 48
Number of parents who signed waver requiring the school to pass their kids to the 8th grade anyway: 48
Number of kids who had to repeat because they failed most or all of their classes: 0

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:28 pm 
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Undeniably, some of these law schools are bottom-tier schools. So they're probably doing these students a service by weeding them out of the general populace of under-qualified law-school graduates.


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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:29 pm 
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at least they're getting practice amirite

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:05 am 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:
Undeniably, some of these law schools are bottom-tier schools. So they're probably doing these students a service by weeding them out of the general populace of under-qualified law-school graduates.


I knew it wouldn't take long for some pretentious idiot to make this comment. I happen to work at a rather large firm and a few of my colleagues are graduates from 3rd and 4th tier schools. What you would refer to as "under-qualified law-school graduates" are actually quite capable of being extremely competent and brilliant attorneys. I've seen many young lawyers from top-tier schools with outstanding resumes who can't hold a candle to these so-called "under-qualified" attorneys. Your comment was both misinformed and ignorant. Views like this are nothing more than pure snobbery and only further contribute to the negative perception of the profession. Thanks for being a dick.

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:12 am 
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*waits for reply*
Chris_H_2's always good with these.

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:03 am 
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Chris may be a pretentious jerk, but he is NO idiot!

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:14 am 
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B wrote:
Chris may be a pretentious jerk, but he is NO idiot!


Intelligent individuals can also be idiots at times. See his post for an example.

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:09 pm 
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am I the only one who caught that some of these students were failed for taking advantage of a loophole to cheat on the exams!? Since when is that not grounds for failure?

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:07 pm 
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NaiveAndTrue wrote:
am I the only one who caught that some of these students were failed for taking advantage of a loophole to cheat on the exams!? Since when is that not grounds for failure?


I think you got it backwards. It was the guy who didn't take advantage of the loophole who is suing.


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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:13 pm 
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pjam81373 wrote:
NaiveAndTrue wrote:
am I the only one who caught that some of these students were failed for taking advantage of a loophole to cheat on the exams!? Since when is that not grounds for failure?


I think you got it backwards. It was the guy who didn't take advantage of the loophole who is suing.


Too ethical to be a lawyer? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:42 pm 
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B wrote:
pjam81373 wrote:
NaiveAndTrue wrote:
am I the only one who caught that some of these students were failed for taking advantage of a loophole to cheat on the exams!? Since when is that not grounds for failure?


I think you got it backwards. It was the guy who didn't take advantage of the loophole who is suing.


Too ethical to be a lawyer? :P



Ahh, okay. Well, maybe he's right to sue, then. You should fail a test for not knowing the answers. They didn't know um' either, they're just sneakier. I guess it doesn't pay to be honest - but he still shouldn't have passed.

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:28 pm 
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PJ10alive41 wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
Undeniably, some of these law schools are bottom-tier schools. So they're probably doing these students a service by weeding them out of the general populace of under-qualified law-school graduates.


I knew it wouldn't take long for some pretentious idiot to make this comment. I happen to work at a rather large firm and a few of my colleagues are graduates from 3rd and 4th tier schools. What you would refer to as "under-qualified law-school graduates" are actually quite capable of being extremely competent and brilliant attorneys. I've seen many young lawyers from top-tier schools with outstanding resumes who can't hold a candle to these so-called "under-qualified" attorneys. Your comment was both misinformed and ignorant. Views like this are nothing more than pure snobbery and only further contribute to the negative perception of the profession. Thanks for being a dick.


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:35 pm 
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NaiveAndTrue wrote:
B wrote:
pjam81373 wrote:
NaiveAndTrue wrote:
am I the only one who caught that some of these students were failed for taking advantage of a loophole to cheat on the exams!? Since when is that not grounds for failure?


I think you got it backwards. It was the guy who didn't take advantage of the loophole who is suing.


Too ethical to be a lawyer? :P



Ahh, okay. Well, maybe he's right to sue, then. You should fail a test for not knowing the answers. They didn't know um' either, they're just sneakier. I guess it doesn't pay to be honest - but he still shouldn't have passed.


Maybe it was a test on finding loopholes.

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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:50 pm 
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PJ10alive41 wrote:
I happen to work at a rather large firm and a few of my colleagues are graduates from 3rd and 4th tier schools.


So? So do I. But I'm not going to pretend that my employment at a "rather large firm" (that's quite the pretentious statement, no?) is at all relevant to the quality of certain law schools quoted in this article. Is the majority of these schools not bottom-tier schools?

By the way, your comment smacks of "I'm not racist, I have some black friends." Well, good for you!

PJ10alive41 wrote:
What you would refer to as "under-qualified law-school graduates" are actually quite capable of being extremely competent and brilliant attorneys.


All of them? Really? Are you really suggesting that every student that attends one of these schools is "quite capable of being extremely competent and brilliant attorneys?" While there are those that attend top-tier schools that fall into the same category as I point out, I don't think that I'm going out on a limb by suggesting that lower-quality schools attract and put out lower-quality students and attorneys, respectively. I don't think I'm pretentious or ignorant by pointing this out.

Here's an example. There are failing schools here in inner-city Chicago. And there are also a larger concentration of students who are under performing. Does pointing that out make me pretentious, an idiot, or a dick?

So answer this question. You were just admitted to 2 law schools: Yale law school and the on-line law program at Phoenix University. What school would you rather attend? If you say Yale, you're just as big of a hypocrite as I am an ignorant, pretentious, idiot, dick (by the way, your "rather large firm" should offer you a complimentary CLE course in civics, because your law school obviously didn't do it's job).

PJ10alive41 wrote:
I've seen many young lawyers from top-tier schools with outstanding resumes who can't hold a candle to these so-called "under-qualified" attorneys.


So?

PJ10alive41 wrote:
Your comment was both misinformed and ignorant.


How? Show me the data that the law schools quoted in that article are not bottom-tier schools. Seriously. Show me.

PJ10alive41 wrote:
Views like this are nothing more than pure snobbery and only further contribute to the negative perception of the profession.


Give me a break.

And my snobbery is certainly not limited to the law profession. Open your eyes instead of your mouth.

PJ10alive41 wrote:
Thanks for being a dick.


No problem. :nice:


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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:58 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Unhappy Law Students Suing Their Schools
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:02 pm 
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By the way, neither Florida A&M University College of Law in Orlando nor American Justice School of Law is even ABA accredited. Also, Regent University School of Law was founded by Pat Robertson. Draw your own conclusions.


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