_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Most likely to win first: Indians (although I bet the Arena Football team wins before that) Who I'd like to see win the most: Cavaliers Who I care about the least: Lake Erie Monsters
_________________ "They got their dirty maize-and-blue hands on it, they screwed it up." --Chris Spielman on Ohio State-Michigan rivalry
Post subject: Re: The Official Cleveland National Champions Thread
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:18 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:08 pm Posts: 8255
The Browns had some bad losses way back when, but they probably would have been killed in the SB anyway.
The Cavs could have beaten the Bulls when MJ hit the shot...but they weren't beating the Pistons that year.
But the Indians really should have won the WS in 97...and maybe at least one other year.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
Post subject: Re: The Official Cleveland National Champions Thread
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:34 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:08 pm Posts: 8255
Joesanity wrote:
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
The Browns had some bad losses way back when, but they probably would have been killed in the SB anyway.
The Cavs could have beaten the Bulls when MJ hit the shot...but they weren't beating the Pistons that year.
But the Indians really should have won the WS in 97...and maybe at least one other year.
I think the Browns could have hung in there with the Redskins in XXII.
No, they wouldn't have beaten the Pistons, but dealing Ron Harper made sure they'd never beat Chicago.
97...kill me now. They should never have lost to the O's in the first round in 96 either.
they also had the Yanks on the ropes a bit in '98.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
Post subject: Re: The Official Cleveland National Champions Thread
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:21 am
Got Some
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:06 am Posts: 2402 Location: Freedonia
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
Joesanity wrote:
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
The Browns had some bad losses way back when, but they probably would have been killed in the SB anyway.
The Cavs could have beaten the Bulls when MJ hit the shot...but they weren't beating the Pistons that year.
But the Indians really should have won the WS in 97...and maybe at least one other year.
I think the Browns could have hung in there with the Redskins in XXII.
No, they wouldn't have beaten the Pistons, but dealing Ron Harper made sure they'd never beat Chicago.
97...kill me now. They should never have lost to the O's in the first round in 96 either.
they also had the Yanks on the ropes a bit in '98.
Really? I didn't watch the whole series like you probably did, but I never for a second thought the Yankees wouldn't win even when they were down 2-1, Cleveland just didn't have the pitching.
The Indians have a damn good present and future, I'd make a specific prediction if I wasn't afraid of jinxing them.
_________________ "Do you realize that even as we sit here, we are hurtling through space at a tremendous rate of speed? Think about it. Our world is just a hanging curveball." -Bill Lee
10. Indians, vs. Giants, Sept. 29, 1954 The Indians, who had won an AL-record 111 games, were swept by the New York Giants in the 1954 World Series. But one moment from the Series lives on forever. In the top of the eighth inning at the Polo Grounds, Giants center fielder Willie Mays made his famous over-the-shoulder catch of a 460-foot drive by Vic Wertz, which preserved a tie game. Then, Dusty Rhodes won the game for the Giants with a pinch-hit home run in the 10th.
9. Cavaliers vs. Celtics, May 19, 1976 The Cavaliers' first season was in 1970 -- and in the first five seasons, the team never finished above .500. But suddenly, in 1975-76, the Cavs became contenders for a year. Cleveland fans dubbed it the Miracle of Richfield. The Cavs finished 49-33 in the regular season under head coach Bill Fitch, then beat the Washington Bullets in a thrilling seven-game series to advance to the Eastern Conference finals against the Boston Celtics. That's when their luck ran out. Two days before Game 1 against the Celtics, center Jim Chones, the team's leading scorer at 15.8 points per game, broke his foot in practice and had to miss the series. The Cavs fought hard, but eventually succumbed to the Celtics, losing 94-87 at home in Game 6 to end the series.
8. Indians vs. Braves, Oct. 28, 1995 The Indians rolled to the majors' best record in 1995 at 100-44, and led the AL in both hitting and pitching. But Atlanta's only World Series win during their current era of success came against Cleveland. The Indians lost Games 1 and 2, both by one run. They trailed 3-1 in the series before winning Game 5 to send the series back to Atlanta. But Tom Glavine and Mark Wohlers held Cleveland to just one hit, a bloop single by Tona Pena in the sixth inning. All Atlanta got was a solo home run by David Justice off Jim Poole in the bottom of that inning -- but that was enough for a 1-0 win. The Indians batted .179 in the series.
7. Cavaliers vs. Bulls, May 29, 1992 In 1992, the Cavaliers advanced to the Eastern Conference finals for the second time in their history. They faced their nemesis, the Chicago Bulls. The teams split the first four games of the series. The Bulls won Game 5 at home. Game 6 in Cleveland was tight. Michael Jordan was just 5 of 20 from the field in the first three quarters. But he came alive in the fourth, pouring in 16 of his 29 points. His three-point play with 37.8 seconds left broke a 93-93 tie, and the Bulls went on to win, 99-94, and advance to the NBA Finals. That was as far as those excellent Cleveland teams, led by Mark Price, Brad Daugherty and Larry Nance, ever got.
Newsome, Davis Cold ending: Mike Davis cuts in front of Ozzie Newsome for the pick.
6. Browns vs. Raiders, Jan. 4, 1981 Cleveland quarterback Brian Sipe had a fantastic year in 1980, with 30 TDs and just 14 INTs (he was named the MVP). The Browns went 11-5, won their division, and earned a first-round bye in the playoffs. Then they hosted the Oakland Raiders, on a day where the wind chill was 35-below. Neither team could get much going offensively. The Browns trailed 14-12 in the fourth quarter when Sipe drove his team to the Raiders' 13-yard line with 49 seconds left.
Sipe wanted to call a running play, to set up a game-winning field goal attempt. But head coach Sam Rutigliano preferred to attempt a pass, since kicker Don Cockroft had missed two field goals and two extra points in the game, and had a bad knee. The famous play? "Red Right 88." Sipe dropped back to pass ... the Raiders blitzed ... Sipe lofted a wobbly pass to tight end Ozzie Newsome ... and Mike Davis picked it off. The Raiders went on to win the Super Bowl.
5. Cavaliers vs. Bulls, May 8, 1989 No one will ever forget the way this game ended -- with one of the most famous shots in NBA history. It was a deciding Game 5 in the first round of the NBA playoffs. The Bulls had come back, courtesy of a 16-3 fourth-quarter run, and took a 99-98 lead with six seconds left, thanks to a Michael Jordan pull-up jumper. But a Craig Ehlo lay-in off an inbounds play gave Cleveland the lead with three seconds to play. Coming out of the timeout, Jordan was double-teamed by Ehlo and Larry Nance. But he got free anyway and nailed a double-clutch foul-line jumper while hanging in mid-air at the buzzer to give the Bulls a 101-100 victory. Jordan finished with 44 points. It was the Cavs' second consecutive Game 5 loss to Chicago.
4. Modell moves the Browns, Nov. 6, 1995 On this date, Browns owner Art Modell announced he was moving the team to Baltimore. Cleveland fans were outraged. The team lost seven of its last eight games that year, finishing with a record of 5-11. But they did win their final game at Cleveland Municipal Stadium on Dec. 17 against the Cincinnati Bengals, 26-10. Their head coach, Bill Belichick, went on to win two Super Bowls with the New England Patriots.
Ernest Byner Ernest Byner had the Dog Pound barking tears after his fumble.
In 1996, the city and the NFL struck a deal to return the Browns to the league in 1999, with the same name, colors and history. But Modell remains Public Enemy No. 1 with Cleveland fans, and the city will never forget.
3. Browns vs. Broncos, Jan. 17, 1988 For the second year in a row, the Browns and Broncos hooked up in the AFC Championship game. This time, instead of The Drive (see below), it was The Fumble. The Browns fell way behind, but made a spectacular comeback, scoring 30 points in the second half, led by quarterback Bernie Kosar. They still trailed 38-31 late, but were on the verge of scoring a game-tying touchdown with just over a minute to play. Running back Ernest Byner, who'd already notched two touchdowns on the day, took a handoff from Kosar -- and he appeared to have the room to reach the end zone. But Jeremiah Castille was able to strip the ball away from him and recover it at the 3-yard line, sealing the win for Denver (which took a safety to make the final score 38-33).
2. Browns vs. Broncos, Jan. 11, 1987 In 1986, the Browns led the AFC with 12 wins. Then they had to rally from 10 points down with two minutes left to beat the Jets, 23-20 in OT, in the playoffs. In the AFC Championship game, they hosted the Broncos -- this time Cleveland had a 20-13 lead late in the fourth quarter, with the Broncos pinned all the way back at their own 2-yard line. That's where John Elway started The Drive. Elway maneuvered the Broncos 98 yards in 15 plays, including a 3rd-and-18 conversion at one point. He connected with Mark Jackson with 37 seconds left to tie the game at 20. Then Rich Karlis kicked a game-winning 33-yard field goal in OT to send the Broncos to the Super Bowl.
Tony Fernandez The Fumble, The Drive ... The Error.
1. Indians vs. Marlins, Oct. 26, 1997 In the 1997 World Series, the Indians faced the Florida Marlins, who'd only existed for five years. The series went the full seven games. In Game 7 in Florida, Cleveland got an excellent start from rookie Jaret Wright, who gave up just one run and two hits in 6 1/3 innings. They took a 2-1 lead into the bottom of the ninth inning, three outs away from a championship -- the franchise's first since 1948 and the first for the city of Cleveland since the Browns won the 1964 NFL championship in the pre-Super Bowl era.
But closer Jose Mesa blew the save, and the game went to extra innings. After a crucial error by second baseman Tony Fernandez with one out in the bottom of the 11th put runners on first and third (instead of being a potentially inning-ending double play), Edger Renteria's two-out RBI single off Charles Nagy won the World Series for Florida.
For reference:
THE 15 MOST TORTURED SPORTS CITIES 15. Tampa Bay 14. Kansas City 13. Cincinnati 12. Phoenix 11. Washington, D.C. 10. Houston 9. San Diego 8. Atlanta 7. Seattle 6. Minneapolis 5. Boston 4. Chicago 3. Buffalo 2. Philadelphia 1. Cleveland
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Post subject: Re: The Official Cleveland National Champions Thread
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:36 am
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
Quote:
3. Browns vs. Broncos, Jan. 17, 1988 For the second year in a row, the Browns and Broncos hooked up in the AFC Championship game. This time, instead of The Drive (see below), it was The Fumble. The Browns fell way behind, but made a spectacular comeback, scoring 30 points in the second half, led by quarterback Bernie Kosar. They still trailed 38-31 late, but were on the verge of scoring a game-tying touchdown with just over a minute to play. Running back Ernest Byner, who'd already notched two touchdowns on the day, took a handoff from Kosar -- and he appeared to have the room to reach the end zone. But Jeremiah Castille was able to strip the ball away from him and recover it at the 3-yard line, sealing the win for Denver (which took a safety to make the final score 38-33).
2. Browns vs. Broncos, Jan. 11, 1987 In 1986, the Browns led the AFC with 12 wins. Then they had to rally from 10 points down with two minutes left to beat the Jets, 23-20 in OT, in the playoffs. In the AFC Championship game, they hosted the Broncos -- this time Cleveland had a 20-13 lead late in the fourth quarter, with the Broncos pinned all the way back at their own 2-yard line. That's where John Elway started The Drive. Elway maneuvered the Broncos 98 yards in 15 plays, including a 3rd-and-18 conversion at one point. He connected with Mark Jackson with 37 seconds left to tie the game at 20. Then Rich Karlis kicked a game-winning 33-yard field goal in OT to send the Broncos to the Super Bowl.
Post subject: Re: The Official Cleveland National Champions Thread
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:21 am
Got Some
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:06 am Posts: 2402 Location: Freedonia
When that list was made their baseball teams had gone roughly 180 combined years without a World Series win, the Blackhawks old owner was still alive and the Bears had had 1 good season in a dozen years.
_________________ "Do you realize that even as we sit here, we are hurtling through space at a tremendous rate of speed? Think about it. Our world is just a hanging curveball." -Bill Lee
Post subject: Re: The Official Cleveland National Champions Thread
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:46 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:08 pm Posts: 8255
Ozymandias wrote:
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
Joesanity wrote:
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
The Browns had some bad losses way back when, but they probably would have been killed in the SB anyway.
The Cavs could have beaten the Bulls when MJ hit the shot...but they weren't beating the Pistons that year.
But the Indians really should have won the WS in 97...and maybe at least one other year.
I think the Browns could have hung in there with the Redskins in XXII.
No, they wouldn't have beaten the Pistons, but dealing Ron Harper made sure they'd never beat Chicago.
97...kill me now. They should never have lost to the O's in the first round in 96 either.
they also had the Yanks on the ropes a bit in '98.
Really? I didn't watch the whole series like you probably did, but I never for a second thought the Yankees wouldn't win even when they were down 2-1, Cleveland just didn't have the pitching.
Yup, the Yanks had better starting pitching, but they were down 2-1 in Cleveland with 2 more games to play at the Jake. Part of the paranoia on the part of Yankee fans stemmed from the fact that Cleveland had eliminated them the year before.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
Post subject: Re: The Official Cleveland National Champions Thread
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:58 pm
too drunk to moderate properly
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
i got bugs wrote:
if they couldvve sealed the deal vs boston, up 3-1, they win it all prob.
If the list I posted hadn't been from 2004, it probably wouldn't have contained that series.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Last edited by ¡B! on Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Post subject: Re: The Official Cleveland National Champions Thread
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:02 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:08 pm Posts: 8255
warehouse wrote:
B wrote:
2. Philadelphia 1. Cleveland
im gonna disagree w/ this
yeah, Philly has the Flyers to make them miserable as well.
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
Post subject: Re: The Official Cleveland National Champions Thread
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:19 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:08 pm Posts: 8255
warehouse wrote:
Ricardo Tubbs wrote:
warehouse wrote:
B wrote:
2. Philadelphia 1. Cleveland
im gonna disagree w/ this
yeah, Philly has the Flyers to make them miserable as well.
seriously. they came with in a game of making the stanley cup finals twice in the last decade and lost in the finals in 1997 and 1987.
They also had a star goalie die while DWI...
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
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