...plagiarism?
let's clear this off right from the beginning, PJ's one of my all-time favorite bands. that being said, there's no denying that they often wear their influences on their sleeve and sometimes it's almost too obvious.
it's commonly accepted that GTF kind of borrows its melody from Led Zep's Going To California; do you know other songs that PJ most likely paid homage to or more bluntly, ripped off?
and also, where do you think a musical entity crosses the line between the subtle (or not) tribute and the rip-off? unconscious plagiarism?

- so there's a PJ song that seemingly borrows A LOT from Hüsker Dü's Beyond the Threshold (from Zen Arcade, which i'm listening for the first time tonight).

the first to post the right answer will win this:

"...as I lay down...your crooked...AAAAAARM!"

this goes to spenno!

The beginning of Breakerfall had the riff of 'I can see for miles' by The Who, if I recall it right.
As The Who being one of Ed's big influences I bet this one is more like a homage.

you can't rip off a Led Zeppelin song since every Zep song is already a rip off...I love them but Page got most of his riffs from other people...

they mostly ripped off blues themes and lyrics. seriously, saying every Zep song is a rip off is a bit of a stretch, right? and GTF's melody still sounds like GTC; or Tori Amos' Silent All These Years

there is a finite amount of riffs out there. Almost any song will sound like some other song somewhere at this point. The key is whether or not you do anything new or intersting with it.

soon forget by way of blue red and grey

I Got Shit chorus = Cinnamon Girl

every song yes that's a strech, but they stole a lot of ideas and never gave credit until they were sued....what's Zeppelin's most famous song...Stairway To heaven....listen to the song Taurus by Spirit and tell me if anything sounds familiar...nothing wrong with borrowing and being inspired by someone(I never get mad at Oasis for stealing cause they admit it). Page says he never heard the Spirit song even though they toured with them and Spirit played that song every night...



Stip I would agree with you if a band came out today and someone said hey that riff sounds like so and so....but in 1969 when Zep started it was still in the infancy(maybe not the infancy but certainly the tweens) of rock and rolll...it's not like everything that could have been done was done already......I love Zep, I own all their records, but it burns me that they stole stuff and won't admit where it comes from...the Stones didn't pretend they wrote I Just Want To Make Love To You...Zep pretended they wrote the Lemon song....big difference...



watch this if you want examples:

http://prince.org/msg/8/261568

well yellow ledbetter and little wing... but thats kinda obvious i guess

bada---I pretty much agree. I meant for that to be a comment on more contemporary stuff.

MAN OF THE HOUR is a rip-off of both DUST IN THE WIND and HOT BLOODED.

But seriously, most artists are influenced by existing styles. Very few create new ones. But I think that most artists strive to inject originality into their uses of existing styles. I don't hear Pearl Jam as a band that is mostly known for its rip-offs of other artists' material. But it's still possible to hear the influence of others in their music without thinking that the songs are direct rip-offs. CORDUROY, for example, is an amalgam of a lot of different influences, but it stands as its own creation. Just as MAN OF THE HOUR stands as a separate song despite being an amalgam of DUST IN THE WIND and HOT BLOODED.

Can everyone who's ever written a song using the 12-bar blues progression be accused of ripping-off Robert Johnson?

i'm aware that everyone is influenced by things they like. what i'm wondering/asking is where do we draw the line? i was pretty shocked when i listened to Hüsker Dü's song because not only it was the same notes but it was the same sound as well. the song itself isn't structured like STBC but it's clearly a conscious lift. as a songwriter, i don't mind if my tunes convey the spirit of other bands/songs but if i realize one of my riffs is the same, note for note, as another i heard, i'll drop it or at least i'll try to fuck it up.
that's an ethical issue.

Now that's weird. STBC's riff was written by Jeff that envisioned it as a mid tempo song but Eddie took it and made the song we know which Jeff didn't like and complained about.

I think you mean Stone.

No i think that one was Jeff.

I'm 110% certain it was Stone too.

There's an interview where one of the band members talk about how Stone was kinda annoyed as he brought in a slower, funkier tune and Ed turned it into a punk thrash. Heh.

Well, what do you think? I can imagine some unconscious lifting of themes. I can also imagine conscious lifting of themes to create a new work. For instance, that great "Ode to Joy" theme in Beethoven's Ninth Symphony was lifted from existing themes, but he used it in an inspired way. And he liked it so much that he even used it again. There's also the use of the Shaker folk song SIMPLE GIFTS in Aaron Copeland's APPALACHIAN SPRING. It sounds beautiful, and builds on the original.

What do you think of these three songs?

The Clancy Brothers singing THE BARD OF ARMAGH:



Johnny Cash singing THE STREETS OF LAREDO:



Eric Bogle singing NO MAN'S LAND:



They use the same melody. Are they different enough to exist as separate songs?

well, their melodies are alike but none of these songs is a rip-off in my book. but i,m fairly surprised here. i mean musical rip-offs exist, don't they?

The Chiffons - He's So Fine


George Harisson - My Sweet Lord


and a bit of the story surrounding the lawsuits for plagiarism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Sweet_Lord#Legal_controversy

i don't think George Harrisson or PJ are systematically stealing riffs and melodies. i'm just saying that these things happen. i'm a big Dylan fan but this guy not only borrows a lot musically but he also "steals" lyrics from poets...
also, even if i don't agree with Led Zep's original stance regarding their non-credits for some blues songs, i think that the blues isn't the same thing that pop or rock at all because it's relatively locked in a predictable pattern.