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 Post subject: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:37 pm 
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So, a county in NC has decided to "simplify" their health department's phone messaging by eliminating the Spanish option. Now they're in trouble because they get state and federal funds that require recorded messages in Spanish. Here's an opinion piece out of that county.

What do you think? Is keeping sick Spanish-speaking immigrants from receiving healthcare a good way to discourage illegal immigration?

http://www.beaufortobserver.net/Article ... tions.html


Quote:
State may target many counties with no Spanish phone options
Beaufort initiative reveals others with English only

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay Niver

February 27, 2008
The Beaufort battle over the use of Spanish messages on county phone systems may soon be a war that engulfs more than a dozen other, similar counties.

Commissioners here have been trying to make Beaufort County less attractive to a flood of Hispanic/Latino illegal immigrants, many of whom tap public resources such as schools, health and social services.

On Feb. 4, commissioners voted 4-3 along party lines to remove pre-recorded Spanish from phones at the Department of Health. But before the week was out, Health Director Roxanne Holloman had found state attorneys in Raleigh who said that could cost the county dearly: More than $1 million in state and federal funding would be lost.

The bureaucrats told her that the absence of a Spanish phone option would be a violation of the Title VI provision of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which prohibits discrimination based upon national origin.

Hearing that, she consulted with Board of Heath Chairman Betty Jo Tetterton, and an illegal "emergency" board meeting was hastilly called without any public notice.

Board members met on Friday afternoon, Feb. 8, and – faced with the alleged potential cutoff of major funding – voted unanimously to keep Espanol on the phones.

While this county was trying to remove Spanish, other nearby and similar counties have never used it.

The Observer and County Manager Paul Spruill conducted separate surveys of similar counties' language policies, though neither knew that the other was investigating the issue.

What became apparent is that, while many counties with sizeable Hispanic/Latino populations do use Spanish on their phones, many others do not. And among those who "no speak Spanish," some are presumably inflicting a far greater negative impact.

U.S. Census estimates from 2006 give Beaufort County a 4% Spanish-speaking population. That means there may have been 1,854 immigrants who could have used Spanish assistance on Health Department phones if none could speak English and every one needed health services.

By contrast, Wilson County had more than double the ratio of Hispanics/Latinos (8.4%) and more than three times the number of Spanish-speaking residents (6,436). Still, a call this week to the Wilson County Health Department found no Spanish among the pre-recorded options.

The same was true for Nash County, which in 2006 had a higher portion of Spanish-speaking population (4.4%) and over twice the number of Hispanic/Latino residents (4,061) than did Beaufort.

Greene County had the sixth-highest H/L portion in the state at 11.5%, and it does have a Spanish message at its Health Department – but you must know English to get to it! It says, "If you need to hear the following message in Spanish, press one."

Research by Spruill and the Observer found at least a dozen counties similar to Beaufort that have no Spanish-language phone options. They include Edgecombe, Jones, Duplin, Hyde, Martin, Hertford, Pamlico and Carteret.

All these health departments, including Beaufort, provide paid translators for H/L clients. But that, says Raleigh, is not enough.

So why does the state, at Holloman's invitation, put a bull's-eye on Beaufort County?

The Observer asked Terry Hodges, compliance attorney for the N.C. Dept. of Health and Human Services. He's the state's chief Title VI enforcer.

When told of all the others who don't bother with Spanish, he said, "Thank you for letting us know. ... We'll contact the OCR (Office of Civil Rights) about these possible violations."

The Board of Health meets next Tuesday, March 3, to hear from two state experts about language-compliance issues, and some county commissioners say they will be there.

When asked if he would attend, Hodges said, "I don't have the time to go around to 100 county boards of commissioners and convince them of something we already know is true."

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:19 pm 
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Well, my English professor a couple years ago said, "If they really want to stop illegal immigration, they should take away necessities like free medical care."

Not to say that there aren't legal immigrants calling though


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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:22 pm 
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I Hail Randy Moss wrote:
Not to say that there aren't legal immigrants calling though

And THAT is the point. That's why we have the Civil Rights Act.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:24 pm 
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Quote:
The bureaucrats told her that the absence of a Spanish phone option would be a violation of the Title VI provision of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which prohibits discrimination based upon national origin.


without offering an opinion on the above story...i think this is interesting. how is removing spanish discriminating against someone based on their origin? i guess since english isnt our official language?

leave the spanish option on the phone. jesus. dont we have better things to worry about?

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:33 pm 
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given2trade wrote:
how is removing spanish discriminating against someone based on their origin? i guess since english isnt our official language?

It has more to do with the fact that a person, even after living here for many years, legally or not, may still be less than fluent in English, and would be helped tremendously by having someone speak to them in the native language about important issues. To not have a Spanish translation available is discriminating against people for who Spanish is their first (or only) langauge, and it is their first langauge because of their country of origin.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:55 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
given2trade wrote:
how is removing spanish discriminating against someone based on their origin? i guess since english isnt our official language?

It has more to do with the fact that a person, even after living here for many years, legally or not, may still be less than fluent in English, and would be helped tremendously by having someone speak to them in the native language about important issues. To not have a Spanish translation available is discriminating against people for who Spanish is their first (or only) langauge, and it is their first langauge because of their country of origin.


Aren't we then discriminating against people who's natural tongue isn't Spanish, but say Mandarin, or Arabic or Pashtun? Since they don't have an option for their native tongue, they are being discriminated against. Where does it end? An option for every language and dialect??


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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:02 pm 
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Esperanto ftw.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:02 pm 
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homersheineken wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
given2trade wrote:
how is removing spanish discriminating against someone based on their origin? i guess since english isnt our official language?

It has more to do with the fact that a person, even after living here for many years, legally or not, may still be less than fluent in English, and would be helped tremendously by having someone speak to them in the native language about important issues. To not have a Spanish translation available is discriminating against people for who Spanish is their first (or only) langauge, and it is their first langauge because of their country of origin.


Aren't we then discriminating against people who's natural tongue isn't Spanish, but say Mandarin, or Arabic or Pashtun? Since they don't have an option for their native tongue, they are being discriminated against. Where does it end? An option for every language and dialect??

In areas where there are a large number of Chinese or Arabs or other langauges, they do have multiple options. I think there have been court cases regarding how many affected people there must be to mandate the langauge assistance.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:02 pm 
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bart d. wrote:
Esperanto ftw.

FAIL.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:05 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
bart d. wrote:
Esperanto ftw.

FAIL.

Unu lingvo neniam estas sufiĉa!

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:07 pm 
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i actually work with these systems and often i have to program 1 for spanish, 2 for english. needless to say, this would never pass in Florida.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:14 pm 
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bart d. wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
bart d. wrote:
Esperanto ftw.

FAIL.

Unu lingvo neniam estas sufiĉa!

http://www.incubusthefilm.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:16 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
bart d. wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
bart d. wrote:
Esperanto ftw.

FAIL.

Unu lingvo neniam estas sufiĉa!

http://www.incubusthefilm.com/

I have that on dvd, thank you very much.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:18 pm 
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This probably won't happen in my lifetime, but one day this country will be majority Hispanic/Latino descendents. Part of me does hope that all these people get their way, establish English as the official language, and remove all assistance to Spanish speakers. That way they will have nothing to stand on when the majority Hispanic population, in however many years that will be, votes to change the official language to Spanish and give a big middle finger to English speakers.

So that's half serious and half sarcasm, but....

What is it, 20% of the population is of Latin American descent? In some states it's close to 50%. I'm hispanic myself, my family came here legally from Cuba in 1961 and every single person in my family is fluent in English except for those of my grandparent's generation who are still alive. It was a great thing to do, and I'm glad they did it. It certainly helped them succeed here. I'd like to see how easy it is for english speakers to learn to speak another language -- even spanish which is WAY easier to learn than english -- in their mid-40s or mid 50s. I firmly believe that all hispanics should learn english as soon as possible when they get here. Not to appease the english speakers, but to be able to better their own lives. They should, however, be given that choice.

Not to mention, there is NO official language in the US. That is the policy. I doubt our politicians will ever change that, as the Latino vote becomes more important every election cycle. Nor do I believe they should do anything. I have a right to speak whatever the hell language I want, and if it interferes with my life I will adjust, or choose not to adjust and find another way to live.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:33 pm 
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Wasn't there a Colbert Report where he was complaining that the time he spent pressing one for English was time he could have been spending with his family?

Life imitates art.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:01 pm 
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if the mexicans get sick...whos gonna go mow their lawns, pick up their dirty dishes, clean their hotel rooms, or replace the
foundation of our economy?

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:33 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
homersheineken wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
given2trade wrote:
how is removing spanish discriminating against someone based on their origin? i guess since english isnt our official language?

It has more to do with the fact that a person, even after living here for many years, legally or not, may still be less than fluent in English, and would be helped tremendously by having someone speak to them in the native language about important issues. To not have a Spanish translation available is discriminating against people for who Spanish is their first (or only) langauge, and it is their first langauge because of their country of origin.


Aren't we then discriminating against people who's natural tongue isn't Spanish, but say Mandarin, or Arabic or Pashtun? Since they don't have an option for their native tongue, they are being discriminated against. Where does it end? An option for every language and dialect??

In areas where there are a large number of Chinese or Arabs or other langauges, they do have multiple options. I think there have been court cases regarding how many affected people there must be to mandate the langauge assistance.


Wait, so it only equals discrimination if you live among like-speaking people sufficient to warrant funds to accommodate you and your kind? It's either discrimination or its not. It can't really depend on numbers (which then turns into a due process argument).


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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:41 pm 
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conoalias wrote:
i actually work with these systems and often i have to program 1 for spanish, 2 for english. needless to say, this would never pass in Florida.


yeah i was going to say that. tons of so. fla #s the first option is spanish. its kinda funny with my junk mail too, since my last name is italian and begins with "La" i guess i got selected for hispanic junk mail. spanish is the top language in big print, with either no english, or it being small and on the back. :shake:

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:46 pm 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
homersheineken wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
given2trade wrote:
how is removing spanish discriminating against someone based on their origin? i guess since english isnt our official language?

It has more to do with the fact that a person, even after living here for many years, legally or not, may still be less than fluent in English, and would be helped tremendously by having someone speak to them in the native language about important issues. To not have a Spanish translation available is discriminating against people for who Spanish is their first (or only) langauge, and it is their first langauge because of their country of origin.


Aren't we then discriminating against people who's natural tongue isn't Spanish, but say Mandarin, or Arabic or Pashtun? Since they don't have an option for their native tongue, they are being discriminated against. Where does it end? An option for every language and dialect??

In areas where there are a large number of Chinese or Arabs or other langauges, they do have multiple options. I think there have been court cases regarding how many affected people there must be to mandate the langauge assistance.


Wait, so it only equals discrimination if you live among like-speaking people sufficient to warrant funds to accommodate you and your kind? It's either discrimination or its not. It can't really depend on numbers (which then turns into a due process argument).


Just gonna add my $.02.

I see it as more of a supply/demand type thing. In a place like Vermont or Maine, there is no need for any foreign language assistance (assuming most French-Canadians know both English and French). On the other extreme, however, how do you run Miami without having a plan to deal with people that only speak spanish? You can't. You can't do that in a lot of cities in Florida, CA, TX, etc... If there is a demand for services provided in a different language, then this country needs to meet them. Having no official language doesn't mean you need to cater to every single individual, the reality is that a spanish speaker who moves to Vermont will learn very quickly that he/she NEEDS to learn english or move somewhere else. Areas with high concentrations of foreign language speakers need to have a system that accomodates them.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuck Pressing "1"!! Speak American!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:19 pm 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
homersheineken wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
given2trade wrote:
how is removing spanish discriminating against someone based on their origin? i guess since english isnt our official language?

It has more to do with the fact that a person, even after living here for many years, legally or not, may still be less than fluent in English, and would be helped tremendously by having someone speak to them in the native language about important issues. To not have a Spanish translation available is discriminating against people for who Spanish is their first (or only) langauge, and it is their first langauge because of their country of origin.


Aren't we then discriminating against people who's natural tongue isn't Spanish, but say Mandarin, or Arabic or Pashtun? Since they don't have an option for their native tongue, they are being discriminated against. Where does it end? An option for every language and dialect??

In areas where there are a large number of Chinese or Arabs or other langauges, they do have multiple options. I think there have been court cases regarding how many affected people there must be to mandate the langauge assistance.


Wait, so it only equals discrimination if you live among like-speaking people sufficient to warrant funds to accommodate you and your kind? It's either discrimination or its not. It can't really depend on numbers (which then turns into a due process argument).

Hey, that's what I'd say, but there does seem to be some balance of burdens, even in terms of these rights (which I don't think would be termed "fundamental rights"). If you've got one Chinese guy in your county, it would be overly burdensome to force the county to have translation services just for him.

I like balancing tests. Lots of fudge factor built in.

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