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 Post subject: baseball managers ranked
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:50 pm 
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Wall Street Journal rates Gardenhire top manager in baseball

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/17117576.html

According to the Wall Street Journal, the Twins' Ron Gardenhire is the best manager in baseball.

The publication used a formula based on managers' decision-making in close games, wins above expectations and if they got more out of their players than other managers did.
Of the 20 managers ranked, Gardenhire was third in handling close games, fourth in wins above expectations and fifth in player performance. His average score of 4.00 was safely ahead of San Francisco's Bruce Bochy, who was second at 6.00.

While the results are interesting (Atlanta's Bobby Cox and St. Louis' Tony La Russa were tied for ninth, for example) it raises the question of whether there's a way, beyond wins and losses, to evaluate the effect a manager has on a team.

"The expectations are always going to be thrown out there and you're never going to be good enough for everybody,'' Gardenhire said. "People are going to grade you different ways.

"Criteria? I don't know how you rate managers. They love you. They hate you. It just depends which inning.''

for full rankings:

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/ ... rt=overall

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 Post subject: Re: baseball managers ranked
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:21 pm 
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oddly enough, many twins' fans despise gardy. he has a habit of leaving his starters in too long. he alsoseems to let his personal feelings cloud his judgment: nick punto is still on the team while jason kubel is never given a chance to earn the dh position outright. i'm glad he's our manager, but he needs to share credit with pitching coach rick anderson for being on top of this list.

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 Post subject: Re: baseball managers ranked
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:22 pm 
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1 Ron Gardenhire Twins
2 Bruce Bochy Giants
3 Ned Yost Brewers
4 Charlie Manuel Phillies
5 Bob Melvin Diamondbacks
6 John Gibbons Blue Jays
6 Ozzie Guillen White Sox
8 Willie Randolph Mets
9 Bobby Cox Braves
9 Tony La Russa Cardinals
11 Dusty Baker Reds
12 Lou Piniella Cubs
13 Joe Girardi Yankees
14 Joe Maddon Rays
14 Mike Scioscia Angels
16 Terry Francona Red Sox
17 Joe Torre Dodgers
18 Eric Wedge Indians
19 Jim Leyland Tigers
20 Clint Hurdle Rockies

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 Post subject: Re: baseball managers ranked
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:28 pm 
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thanks for that.

so does anyone else think close game w-l isn't a good determination at all?

Quote:
For the close-games category, we subtracted each manager's overall winning percentage from his winning percentage in games tied after the sixth inning, thus determining whether he performs better or worse in close games.

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 Post subject: Re: baseball managers ranked
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:31 pm 
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Quote:
1 Ron Gardenhire Twins
2 Bruce Bochy Giants
3 Ned Yost Brewers
4 Charlie Manuel Phillies
5 Bob Melvin Diamondbacks
6 John Gibbons Blue Jays
6 Ozzie Guillen White Sox
8 Willie Randolph Mets
9 Bobby Cox Braves
9 Tony La Russa Cardinals
11 Dusty Baker Reds
12 Lou Piniella Cubs
13 Joe Girardi Yankees
14 Joe Maddon Rays
14 Mike Scioscia Angels
16 Terry Francona Red Sox
17 Joe Torre Dodgers
18 Eric Wedge Indians
19 Jim Leyland Tigers
20 Clint Hurdle Rockies


So who is responsible for the relatively recent success of the managers I highlighted? It seems that some managers have been given more credit for making a shitty team decent than the guys who have put good teams on top.

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 Post subject: Re: baseball managers ranked
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:31 pm 
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that list is complete bullshit. what a farce

any list where Jim Leyland isnt top 5 can be completely tossed in the garbage

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 Post subject: Re: baseball managers ranked
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:08 pm 
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Koufax wrote:
that list is complete bullshit. what a farce

any list where Jim Leyland isnt top 5 can be completely tossed in the garbage


And the fact that Charlie Manuel is in the top 5 is a joke.


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 Post subject: Re: baseball managers ranked
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:18 pm 
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Ozzie Guillen & Charlie Manuel are better managers than Bobby Cox and Jim Leyland is the 19th best manager in baseball. Uh huh.

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 Post subject: Re: baseball managers ranked
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:33 pm 
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this list seems to imply luck plays absolutely no role in the game of baseball. which is laughable, of course. the close game thing factoring in is ridiculous.

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