Post subject: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:45 am
Spaceman
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:03 am Posts: 24177 Location: Australia
Any thoughts?
______________________________________________ The sight of a moose wandering through the Scottish Highlands has not been seen for more than 1,000 years.
But a BBC documentary to be aired this week shows the largest member of the deer family back in its historic grazing grounds, as part of a controversial plan to reintroduce extinct wildlife to Britain.
The multimillion-pound scheme by a Scottish landowner Paul Lister aims to bring back long-vanished species to his 23,000 acre Alladale estate, north of Inverness.
And Mr Lister's ideas do not end with the moose - he has established a breeding population of wild boar and wants to reintroduce brown bear, lynx and wolves.
He is also planting 80,000 native trees including Caledonian pine, juniper, hazel and round birch to recreate the traditional forest which once covered the hills.
Wild boar, which exist in feral populations in a number of spots in the UK having escaped from farms and wildlife parks, are useful in conservation because their burrowing and foraging loosens the soil and aids the growth of trees.
Mr Lister said he wants to reintroduce large predators including brown bear and wolves to control the growing population of red deer and stop the damage they do through overgrazing.
But the plans are - unsurprisingly - controversial.
Farmers are concerned about the welfare of their livestock and are demanding the animals be fenced in, while ramblers say such fencing would destroy their right to roam.
And a fence around the estate would mean that under the law the park could just count as a giant zoo - which would mean it was illegal to put predators and prey together.
Despite the difficulties he faces, Mr Lister is determined to recreate the wilderness that his estate would once have been.
"There's always going to be people out there that go: 'This isn't going to work. He's a crackpot, this, that and the other'," he said.
"But as long as the majority of people can see what we are trying to achieve here, then it will happen," he insisted.
:: The Natural World documentary, A Moose In The Glen, will be shown on BBC2 on Wednesday, April 16, at 8pm.
_________________ Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear, Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer. The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:54 am
Unthought Known
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:54 am Posts: 7189 Location: CA
Silly Europeans, it took you thousands of years to devestate your native fauna and flora. You should have waited until industrialization, that way you could've accomplished just as much in about 200 years.
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:21 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
There's been a ton of debate over the reintroduction of the gray wolf to the Rocky Mountain region around Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming for years. Farmers hate them because they attack livestock, and hunters hate them because they attack deer. They were just removed from the endangered species list and now the above people are excited that they can start shooting them again. (Of course, I'm not sure if they realize that it'll put wolves on the list again).
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:31 pm
Interweb Celebrity
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
Green Habit wrote:
and hunters hate them because they attack deer.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:48 pm
Interweb Celebrity
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
Green Habit wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
and hunters hate them because they attack deer.
Gov. Butch Otter wrote:
I'm prepared to bid for that first ticket to shoot a wolf myself.
seriously man, we can't have wolves ruining humans' ability to hunt.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:53 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
Green Habit wrote:
There's been a ton of debate over the reintroduction of the gray wolf to the Rocky Mountain region around Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming for years. Farmers hate them because they attack livestock, and hunters hate them because they attack deer. They were just removed from the endangered species list and now the above people are excited that they can start shooting them again. (Of course, I'm not sure if they realize that it'll put wolves on the list again).
Yeah, they introduced the grey wolf to the Blue Range in Arizona several years ago, and since then, they've had trouble stopping the ranchers from shooting them. They have trackers on the wolves so they can tell if they die; problem is, the wolf doesn't stop moving until it's dropped off a cliff somewhere miles from the actual ranch.
Can't say I wouldn't do the same thing if they were attacking my cattle.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:02 pm
Faithless
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:34 am Posts: 2623
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
and hunters hate them because they attack deer.
Gov. Butch Otter wrote:
I'm prepared to bid for that first ticket to shoot a wolf myself.
seriously man, we can't have wolves ruining humans' ability to hunt.
One of the main points that people make to condone the seal hunt is by saying that the seals eat a lot of cod, which we need to get ourselves, so we need to kill the seals in order to get more cod. How dare the seals eat our food.
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:47 pm
Of Counsel
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
corduroy11 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
and hunters hate them because they attack deer.
Gov. Butch Otter wrote:
I'm prepared to bid for that first ticket to shoot a wolf myself.
seriously man, we can't have wolves ruining humans' ability to hunt.
One of the main points that people make to condone the seal hunt is by saying that the seals eat a lot of cod, which we need to get ourselves, so we need to kill the seals in order to get more cod. How dare the seals eat our food.
That's a little different as people don't fish for cod for sport. Nor do we fish cod in order to "cull the herd". We fish cod for food, period. Deer however, are hunted for both sport and to limit their population, food use being more a by-product of those two things for a great many hunters.
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:50 pm
Supersonic
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:43 am Posts: 10694
corduroy11 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
and hunters hate them because they attack deer.
Gov. Butch Otter wrote:
I'm prepared to bid for that first ticket to shoot a wolf myself.
seriously man, we can't have wolves ruining humans' ability to hunt.
One of the main points that people make to condone the seal hunt is by saying that the seals eat a lot of cod, which we need to get ourselves, so we need to kill the seals in order to get more cod. How dare the seals eat our food.
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:58 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
punkdavid wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
and hunters hate them because they attack deer.
Gov. Butch Otter wrote:
I'm prepared to bid for that first ticket to shoot a wolf myself.
seriously man, we can't have wolves ruining humans' ability to hunt.
One of the main points that people make to condone the seal hunt is by saying that the seals eat a lot of cod, which we need to get ourselves, so we need to kill the seals in order to get more cod. How dare the seals eat our food.
That's a little different as people don't fish for cod for sport. Nor do we fish cod in order to "cull the herd". We fish cod for food, period. Deer however, are hunted for both sport and to limit their population, food use being more a by-product of those two things for a great many hunters.
Every hunter I've ever known eats the venison, and sometimes even hunt for the sole purpose of getting a year's supply of venison.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:59 pm
Of Counsel
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
and hunters hate them because they attack deer.
Gov. Butch Otter wrote:
I'm prepared to bid for that first ticket to shoot a wolf myself.
seriously man, we can't have wolves ruining humans' ability to hunt.
One of the main points that people make to condone the seal hunt is by saying that the seals eat a lot of cod, which we need to get ourselves, so we need to kill the seals in order to get more cod. How dare the seals eat our food.
That's a little different as people don't fish for cod for sport. Nor do we fish cod in order to "cull the herd". We fish cod for food, period. Deer however, are hunted for both sport and to limit their population, food use being more a by-product of those two things for a great many hunters.
Every hunter I've ever known eats the venison, and sometimes even hunt for the sole purpose of getting a year's supply of venison.
That's not inconsistent with what I said.
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:08 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
punkdavid wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
corduroy11 wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
and hunters hate them because they attack deer.
Gov. Butch Otter wrote:
I'm prepared to bid for that first ticket to shoot a wolf myself.
seriously man, we can't have wolves ruining humans' ability to hunt.
One of the main points that people make to condone the seal hunt is by saying that the seals eat a lot of cod, which we need to get ourselves, so we need to kill the seals in order to get more cod. How dare the seals eat our food.
That's a little different as people don't fish for cod for sport. Nor do we fish cod in order to "cull the herd". We fish cod for food, period. Deer however, are hunted for both sport and to limit their population, food use being more a by-product of those two things for a great many hunters.
Every hunter I've ever known eats the venison, and sometimes even hunt for the sole purpose of getting a year's supply of venison.
That's not inconsistent with what I said.
No, but the difference between cod fishing and deer hunting is only in magnitude. Some people fish for sport, too. I would actually consider catch-and-release fishing to be more barbaric a practice than hunting.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:46 pm
Spaceman
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:03 am Posts: 24177 Location: Australia
MF wrote:
Is reintroducing moose to a country with windy single lane roads really a good idea?
spoken as a true experienced canadian, eh? there's a bunch of such issues surrounding this, but as it says, they can't fence them in and not separate predators and prey. unless the law is changed of course... make this land a special zone with provisions for it or something.
_________________ Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear, Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer. The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.
Post subject: Re: 'Extinct' wildlife being returned to Scotland
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:49 pm
Spaceman
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:03 am Posts: 24177 Location: Australia
because nessie isn't extinct, david. she's very much extant.
_________________ Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear, Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer. The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.
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